Suggestions for starting your own group.

Arcsylver · Post by **Arcsylver** » Fri May 02, 2003 4:43 pm

Fellow guild/order/player group founders.

I am wanting to make a list of suggestions to put out for peple who wish to make player groups. I would appreciate that any of you who have gone through this process to make some notes here regarding things you learned along the way as well as tips on the stumbling blocks you faced in doing so.

I founded the Warrior Maidens of Dre'Ana personally. I spent many hours pouring over any and all info pertaining to Dre'Ana before I ever started.

My tips are as follows:

1. Educate yourself fully on the order's chosen focus. If it is a godly order make sure you know your stuff about that specific god AS WELL AS your gods affiliations with the other gods and organisations.

2. Be ready to have a lot of questions thrown at you.

3. Make sure you conytact the Avlis team first to see if another group already fills your niche somewhere. Also they can let you know what team member is handling that aspect of Avlis so you know who to discuss the points of your group before it becomes official.

4. Work with the team. They will be very helpful when the time comes to submit your custom guild items to the team and it will make the submission process go more smoothly.

5. Try and make your items make sense to your group. Nothing worse than a group whose items dont really reflect thier role in the world correctly. I.E. if you are making an order to the god of murder why would you have an item that heals when it hits? Think about what you are doing when creating them. It makes the overall experience more fun.

6. I would highly suggest that you not do much recruiting until you get you order worked out pretty good. It makes it easier to explain what you are all about when the new recruits ask.

7. Make sure you really know what your group is about. The inevitable political debates will happen. Just look to the Order of Gorethar for an extremem example of that one.

8. Most importantly, activly participate in your group. Don't leave them hanging. Make sure you take the time to be an active leader for your group as much as you can. You already have a good base to pull your group to party up and adnevture from. Use it.

9. One of the biggest problems I had with the Maidens was getting stessed out worrying I was screwing up somehow. Don't let this happen to you. It takes some of the fun out of things. I learned the hard way that even though I was making this happen, I had a lot of leewayy in what I was allowed to do.

10. Make a set of rules for your group to follow. Nothing worse than people messing up what you worked so hard for because they have no clue what they are really allowed to do and not do. Put it in writing for all of them to see. The team usually sets you up a private message boards for just this purpose.

That is a good starting point for this topic I think. I am sure that the other group leaders will have similar suggestions as well. The main thing to remember is that you will be making a permanent change to Avlis by doing this and you need to consider things carefully because you will be taking part of Avlis into your hands to an extent and you must make sure you are ready for that.

Vanor · Post by **Vanor** » Fri May 02, 2003 4:53 pm

This may of changed... But at one point it was required that you have a DM sponsor any player made order. A given DM can sponsor more then one group naturaly... But it does or at least did, require one before the order is reconized on Avlis.

Arcsylver · Post by **Arcsylver** » Fri May 02, 2003 5:08 pm

I think that is still the case. Misty is the Warrior Maidens sponsor.

I would be willing to compile a list of the official rules if someone could send them to me for me to organise and post here as well.

Vanor · Post by **Vanor** » Fri May 02, 2003 5:24 pm

*chuckles*

That would mean we actualy have some offical rules

Vanor · Post by **Vanor** » Fri May 02, 2003 5:40 pm

I think I should clairfy something...

Needing DM sponsorship doesn't mean you should go to the DM first. Get established as a PC, start the group, get some members ect... before you come to one of us. Because if you don't have the basic stuff in place first, we may not be able to do much for you. You may want to inform a DM about your idea, just to make sure such a thing doesn't already exist, and will be alowed. But be ready to have a lot of the starting stuff done before you are sponsored by a DM.

Sullaer · Post by **Sullaer** » Fri May 02, 2003 8:58 pm

Very good tips. I would add:

Make sure you have the time to organize the group.

When the Avlis Arms and Armour Association was first proposed, the original organizers for the guild didn?t have the time necessary to get it going. Eventually, I took over as organizer and I spent an average of 30 hours a week for about four weeks before we became official and then another 30 hours per week for six more weeks before all the major organization was done. I had no idea it would take so much of my time, but I followed through and the AAAA is a reality now. Not all groups, I?m sure, will take this much time; but, the time quickly adds up.

We had no sponsor, but we are not a religious order.

If your group is going to need a building or meeting place, try to find someone in your group that has design experience with the toolset and someone who can script if you need that. Get this process going as soon as you can. The more work you can do yourself, the less you rely on the team and the quicker it will go live once it is submitted.

Kaleb

Voyor · Post by **Voyor** » Fri May 02, 2003 9:21 pm

Well for every one who wishes to do so: THINK

1. It will take you a lot of time
2. You really get some responsibility!

But if you succeed... I think it is one of the most beautiful things

*thumbs up to Arcsylver*

Faidyn · Post by **Faidyn** » Sat May 03, 2003 12:08 am

The first thing that came into my mind when I first started reading your post, Arcsylver, was .. be prepared to work.

Founding a group ends up being a big responsibility. Not only are you accountable to your character, but the community and the team as well; especially Orleron, who, somewhere in his notes or in his head, has a very definite outline of the grounds you intend to occupy.

I see being offered the opportunity to organize an official group as a sub-DM position. An intern to your sponsor, so to speak. When you're not recruiting, you're setting up events, helping plotlines along or just simply working here on the boards to keep it all together.

Be prepared to work.

That being said, I've been here since September and I've never enjoyed my time here as much as I have recently, running the Order of Valok.

It's all worth it.

Arcsylver · Post by **Arcsylver** » Sat May 03, 2003 7:35 am

Aye I agree I have thouroughly enjoyed the fruits of my labors with the Maidens.

I was still kind of floating around Avlis and to be honest was getting a little bored trying to live up to the high standards as a level 3 fighter in a world so full of legendary heroes.

Then It hit me one night in the Forest of Midnight in a flash of roleplaying that I should make it my lifes work as Tenirra to found an order to Dre'Ana.

The rest as it were is Avlissian history. (literally

)

I have found that when you are in an order you get a slightly better chance usually of getting into DM events because it improves your chances of being in a group more often. I have also found that by Running a group you are indeed a sort of DM's assistant in a lot of ways. Things people never see IC such as PM's between me and DM's about the order and tell's sent in game to get info from me or to ask me to do something IC as a set up for a plotline.

To me thatis the most fun I can have in Avlis right now.

Admittedly it does take away from you IC roleplay time a lot of the time. Perfect example of this is the relationship between Voyor and Tenirra, They hardly get to spend any time together lately due to all the work Tenirra is doing both in game and behind the scenes. You gotta keep on top of things a lot to be able to run a player group well. It is more than just running your group. It is interacting with the other groups and the team equally as well as the IC in game parts.

choraldances · Post by **choraldances** » Sat May 03, 2003 2:28 pm

Yeup, certainly takes a ton of time....

Umbrata Velvet · Post by **Umbrata Velvet** » Mon May 05, 2003 8:58 am

Most defenitely it does. Specially interacting with hostile groups. And the iddle curious.

Post by **Nighthawk4** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:51 am

Hi,

Not sure if this is the correct place for this - please feel free to move it if not.

1). I am keen to encourage people to visit Ferrell.

2). We need to provide some Roleplay reason for people to do this.

3). I think a Guild of Berryn would help with this.
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Ideas so far (very early days).

1). A Temple of Berryn - a bit ordinary - done before

2). Crafting Guild - also done before

3). Halflings like food (as I understand it). Maybe a Gourmet Restaurant in Ferrell - with the Guild exchanging recipes and planning Feasts - private or public. Not sure if this would work. However, a meal with lots of courses, with waiter/waitress service might be good for Roleplay.

4). Maybe the Forum and Guild would be separate than the feasting?

5). A Ferrell Tourist Agency - maybe providing information or even Guided Tours of Ferrell.
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I would be happy to work on this. I believe a DM is required to oversee this. It would seem wise for this to be someone more or less in the same timezone as me.

Comments please?

JollyOrc · Post by **JollyOrc** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:57 am

Nighthawk4 wrote: 3). Halflings like food (as I understand it). Maybe a Gourmet Restaurant in Ferrell - with the Guild exchanging recipes and planning Feasts - private or public. Not sure if this would work. However, a meal with lots of courses, with waiter/waitress service might be good for Roleplay.

I will add here, that there is certainly an interest in those things, even outside Ferrell. So a quality gourmet cook might earn a decent income.

subspace1011 · Post by **subspace1011** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:33 pm

So back to the topic...

1.) When choosing people to help you found the group, choose players who have proved to be good RPers and have been around or awhile, or whom you know will be around awhile. I don't know what I would have done without the input of Jordicus and Midnight.

2.) Don't be afraid to talk to the DMs. They can help you solidify your ideas. Especially with the multitude of guild procedures you'll need to write.

3.) Do alot of thinking about guild advancement procedures, because if the players remain stagnant, they may get bored and leave.

Sindol · Post by **Sindol** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:47 pm

Nighthawk4 wrote: Comments please?

Comments, here we go:

1). I am keen to encourage people to visit Ferrell.

2). We need to provide some Roleplay reason for people to do this.

3). I think a Guild of Berryn would help with this.

1. Me too. As soon as my current plotline is done Berryn is going home.

2. Halflings live there, nuff said. What do you mean: "I don't get it."? Ok, Jordicus and Merago (both have halfling characters) are fleshing the server out like madmen. Things are being added all the time.

3. Guild of Berryn should start with a temple and at least one cleric of Berryn. Only cleric of Berryn I know was/is being played by Jordicus, but he got rather pushed back once the AKN lifted off and now Jordicus has his hands full with other stuff as well (see point two).

Nighthawk4 wrote:Ideas so far (very early days).

1). A Temple of Berryn - a bit ordinary - done before

2). Crafting Guild - also done before

3). Halflings like food (as I understand it). Maybe a Gourmet Restaurant in Ferrell - with the Guild exchanging recipes and planning Feasts - private or public. Not sure if this would work. However, a meal with lots of courses, with waiter/waitress service might be good for Roleplay.

4). Maybe the Forum and Guild would be separate than the feasting?

5). A Ferrell Tourist Agency - maybe providing information or even Guided Tours of Ferrell.

1. Temple of Berryn is in already. It was one of the first (if not the first) interiors in Ferrel that was done by Jordicus.

2. Yeah, I think we already have that one covered on Avlis. Some merchants might do well with setting up their own tent on the fair though. Great place for hawking your wears.

3. See JollyOrc's comment above. A fine gourmet restaurant is what Avlis is severly lacking in at the moment. An excellent idea.

4. Does it really matter? Overlapping members between guild and orders happens all the time. It gives the players more freedom to RP and should not be lightly curtailed, most certainly not worth thinking about in this early stage.

5. Also a good idea. Organise some guided tours of the little country with a souvenir shop at the end. Classic merchandising trick.

Nighthawk4 wrote:I would be happy to work on this. I believe a DM is required to oversee this. It would seem wise for this to be someone more or less in the same timezone as me.

At this stage you don't need any DM backup to start a guild. First put down some footwork and get things going IC. Once I see some more players on Ferrell regularly, doing the footwork for this idea it will be time to think about finalising the structure for a real guild/order. At that stage you need at least 8 to 10 members and a DM sponsor. In general any religious order that adheres to the teneths of the faith well and is active enough can easily get a sponsor. Since I am pretty much in your timezone it could even be me.

Post by **Nighthawk4** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 4:41 pm

Thanks Sindol.

A couple of comments I would like to add.

1). I have a Monk of Berryn - will that do or does it need a Cleric?

2). I also have a Halfling Scout (i.e. Rogue). This seems a good character for the Ferrell Tourist Agency and the Restaurant.

Can we please have either a Forum for this, or maybe (more usefully) a Tavern for Ferrell, or maybe the Village of Kitanya Hill? This would enable us to discuss these matters without having to use the notice board in the Tavern in Elysia - a long way to travel to pick up our messages.

Sindol · Post by **Sindol** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:03 pm

Nighthawk4 wrote:Thanks Sindol.

A couple of comments I would like to add.

1). I have a Monk of Berryn - will that do or does it need a Cleric?

2). I also have a Halfling Scout (i.e. Rogue). This seems a good character for the Ferrell Tourist Agency and the Restaurant.

Can we please have either a Forum for this, or maybe (more usefully) a Tavern for Ferrell, or maybe the Village of Kitanya Hill? This would enable us to discuss these matters without having to use the notice board in the Tavern in Elysia - a long way to travel to pick up our messages.

Your monk will do as a leader to a group of followers, although he can never claim to have any tie to Berryn directly. A sort of layman community leader, you might say. For a real spiritual leader and thus a more direct tie to the church you would always need a cleric or a druid IMHO. And since Berryn doesn't make any druids you're stuck with clerics.

A tavern forum for Ferrell would be nice, but there aren't any taverns there yet, so it would be a bit unrealistic. I'll see what can be done though.

Post by **Nighthawk4** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:17 pm

Sindol wrote:Your monk will do as a leader to a group of followers, although he can never claim to have any tie to Berryn directly. A sort of layman community leader, you might say. For a real spiritual leader and thus a more direct tie to the church you would always need a cleric or a druid IMHO. And since Berryn doesn't make any druids you're stuck with clerics.

I was afraid of that. I suppose a Monk/Cleric dual-class is no good?

Maybe - she has been a faithfull servant of Berryn for some time (as a Monk) and has been called to a more direct service and taken Holy Orders? It is possible for a Monk to be religious rather than just a martial arts specialist isn't it?

Vanor · Post by **Vanor** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:18 pm

Nighthawk4 wrote:I was afraid of that. I suppose a Monk/Cleric dual-class is no good?

That would be good enough IMO at least. As long as it's more then say 1 or 2 levels of Cleric. Say 3-5 would be enough IMO.

Sindol · Post by **Sindol** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:22 pm

Nighthawk4 wrote: I was afraid of that. I suppose a Monk/Cleric dual-class is no good?

Maybe - she has been a faithfull servant of Berryn for some time (as a Monk) and has been called to a more direct service and taken Holy Orders? It is possible for a Monk to be religious rather than just a martial arts specialist isn't it?

A monk dual class is just as much a cleric as a pure cleric. Any other class can be religious, zealous even, but their special powers are not derived from the divine, so they will never stand as close to a god as the druids and clerics. The exception to this are the holy warriors and only the nine greater gods of Avlis have the power to make holy warriors. Berryn still isn't one of them unfortunately, so that's not an option either.

Jordicus · Post by **Jordicus** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:25 pm

actually monk/cleric would work extremely well.. read up on Dieder's background of Gram Jamjeans here: viewtopic.php?t=8546&start=50

then go and have a look at Huntingcreek Hills...

and Diego is going to have a ressurection soon too..

Sparrowhawk · Post by **Sparrowhawk** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:32 pm

Sindol wrote: 3. Guild of Berryn should start with a temple and at least one cleric of Berryn. Only cleric of Berryn I know was/is being played by Jordicus, but he got rather pushed back once the AKN lifted off and now Jordicus has his hands full with other stuff as well (see point two).

I was wondering what happened to Peribo.

Mistcaller · Post by **Mistcaller** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:45 pm

I suppose a Monk/Cleric dual-class is no good?

heh...