Now Discussion of "Test Avlis XP and Loot"

Post by **MadK@** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:23 am

The Avlis XP and Loot system has been going through some proposed changes. Revision has been looked at and developed by the team to the point now where we need you guys and gals to approve before it goes any further.
So we invite you to play test this new system for us and give as much constructive feed back as possible.
A local vault Test server has been set up for everyone to participate.

Server details
Avlis-XpLootTest
68.196.122.147:5128
password: XpTest

XP System
- XP is still dependent on CR but is no longer split among the party - everyone gets the same XP as they would have gotten had they killed the creature solo (in Avlis' current XP code the XP is split evenly among all party members, so this revision will cause an increase in XP).
- Traps and associates give XP to their creators/controllers.
- There is a an XP cap per kill of your level times ten or 200, whichever is smaller.
- There is also a time-based cap of 7000xp/week. (this does not include scripted quests, DM events, or crafting)

Creature Loot System
- Creatures with the Commoner or Merchant factions no longer drop loot.

New loot
- Humanoid
- Hostile animals, beasts, and magical beasts
- NPCs spellcasters
- Aberrations
- Constructs
- Dragons
- Elementals
- Oozes
- Undead
- Vermin

Remember this is a test, so test your butts off!

Feedback can be posted here.
Try and keep spoilers to a minimum.

Any bugs found please feel free to pm me

Cerridwyn · Post by **Cerridwyn** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:25 am

There is also a time-based cap of 7000xp/week.

darn, i'm going to have to go get a job now...

pp · Post by pp » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:34 am

MadK@ wrote:XP System
- XP is still dependent on CR but is no longer split among the party - everyone gets the same XP as they would have gotten had they killed the creature solo (in Avlis' current XP code the XP is split evenly among all party members, so this revision will cause an increase in XP).

Thumbs up!

- There is also a time-based cap of 7000xp/week.

Does this also apply to DM cookies?
- No

Creature Loot System
- Creatures with the Commoner or Merchant factions no longer drop loot.

Does this affect certain quests? Or are those commoners not set to the Commoner faction?

This should not effect quest drops.

robocod · Post by **robocod** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:09 am

There is also a time-based cap of 7000xp/week.

Sound like good changes.

You want feedback posted here?

GimpGenius · Post by **GimpGenius** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:31 am

Does the 7,000 per week apply to all uncookied experience (MOB killing, crafting, and quest XP), or does it apply strictly to "random" experience?

- scripted quests, DM events and crafting are exempt from the cap

Capping what one can get regularly is a good idea, I think, as it puts more focus on the social facet of the game. But going through a quest and only getting a handful of gold pieces as a reward would be kind of irritating, for one, and it may also discourage people from partying up if they've already hit their cap for the week.

tid242 · Post by **tid242** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:33 am

MadK@ wrote: - XP is still dependent on CR but is no longer split among the party - everyone gets the same XP as they would have gotten had they killed the creature solo (in Avlis' current XP code the XP is split evenly among all party members, so this revision will cause an increase in XP).

So does this mean that if a party member kills something the rest of the party no longer gets XP? Or just that everyone in the party gets XP, but a different amount depending upon the particulars of their chars?
- Everyone in the party gets XP, but a different amount depending upon the particulars of their chars

MadK@ wrote: - There is also a time-based cap of 7000xp/week.

Quests included?

- scripted quests, DM events and crafting are not included in the cap

cool beans...

-tid242

robocod · Post by **robocod** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:24 am

Inititial feedback:
1) commoners in Bladenburgh dropped loot (just few coins, club, gem, lock of hair stuff), but I thought they were supposed drop nothing (unless maybe it is static?)

2) fought giants solo: XP looks about same as normal

3) loot from giants, ogres, trolls, etc.: different, e.g. Troll dart, Ogre dart, etc. One giant had an Idol of Vengence (casts Doom), which he actually used on me, which was nice touch. General impression was that loot value looked similar to what it is now, just different stuff. But why have Ogre dart, Troll dart, Hill Giant Crossbow, etc., when they are just normal items but with different description? Unless, maybe there is crafting reason? I mean its cool having different names for them, but doesn't it just create more items in palette to be maintained, etc.

I guess the XP tests need carying out with party and summons, etc. to test out new features. Will try to later if I can find someone.

Also, regarding...

- XP is still dependent on CR but is no longer split among the party - everyone gets the same XP as they would have gotten had they killed the creature solo (in Avlis' current XP code the XP is split evenly among all party members, so this revision will cause an increase in XP).

This means that say I kill ogre and get no XP for it when solo, but if I party-up and take some lower-level with me in current Avlis system I would get XP, but with new XP system I would get nothing, and the lower-level would get more than they would before? So, the lower-level gets more XP, but the higher level gets none / less than before? Is this right? Is there a bonous / insentive for party-up?

robocod · Post by **robocod** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:43 am

robocod wrote:
There is also a time-based cap of 7000xp/week.

Sound like good changes.

You want feedback posted here?

Actually, 7000xp week seemed like a lot at first. And none of my PCs have ever been near that... but I guess its only 1000xp per day if you play 7 days a week, and I guess there are those.

Do you think lvl-based cap would be more appropriate? 7k for low-level is lots, but a drop in the ocean for an epic.

rshampshire · Post by **rshampshire** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:06 pm

robocod wrote: Actually, 7000xp week seemed like a lot at first. And none of my PCs have ever been near that... but I guess its only 1000xp per day if you play 7 days a week, and I guess there are those.

Do you think lvl-based cap would be more appropriate? 7k for low-level is lots, but a drop in the ocean for an epic.

Thats one of the reasons we want the player base to test the new system. We know what we are trying to achive with the new system but unless it's play tested we can't determine whether the changes are practicable or not.

3) loot from giants, ogres, trolls, etc.: different, e.g. Troll dart, Ogre dart, etc. One giant had an Idol of Vengence (casts Doom), which he actually used on me, which was nice touch. General impression was that loot value looked similar to what it is now, just different stuff. But why have Ogre dart, Troll dart, Hill Giant Crossbow, etc., when they are just normal items but with different description? Unless, maybe there is crafting reason? I mean its cool having different names for them, but doesn't it just create more items in palette to be maintained, etc.

These are just re-named on the fly so they are not actually palette items.

Is there a bonous / insentive for party-up?

Yes, though lets not give it away. Party up and see if you notice what it is.

Final Shinryuu · Post by **Final Shinryuu** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:16 pm

This is wonderful! So high levels will be able to party up with low levels now, without feeling guilty that they'll ruin the low level character's experience gain?

ace4lyyfe · Post by **ace4lyyfe** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:26 pm

Is there a bonous / insentive for party-up?

Yes, though lets not give it away. Party up and see if you notice what it is.

Hmmm... I'm guessing that more members in your party means that better loot is dropped?

H

yorlik · Post by **yorlik** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:33 pm

I'm happy about the idea of a time based XP cap.
This in conjunction with easier XP gaining would seriously take the burden
away from any feel to PG to be able to level up, especially for epics.
And it still would be necessary to actually do something to level.

I'd suggest to do it a little different:

Define a time, for example one or two years you want to have as a minimum to reach the max level 40.

That would be e.g. roughly one level every 10-20 days..

And calculate a normal playtime, even non-addicted people can play,
lest say 5-8 hors per week maximum.
Within this playtime this time it should be possible to gain the XP to level.

So my suggestion would be:
One level possible every X days.
Y hours per day average playtime set as "normal"

XP needed to level = 1000 per current level.

A PC such should be able to gain these XP required in X*Y gaming hours.

E.G:
If the level cap interval would be set to every 15 days,
and the "normal" playtime would be set to 1 hour per day average.

Someone at level 10 who needs 10.000 XP to level, would then need
to be able to earn 10.000 XP in 15 days*1 hour per day = 15 hours
which would be 666 XP in one hour, with hopefully still enough time to RP.

For an Epic at level 23 this would result in a
(23.000XP / 15 hours) = 1533 XP per hour and so on.

Just my 2 cents

~Y.

We've asked players to play-test the new system and provide feedback on it. We aren't currently looking for alternate system set-ups. Thanks for the suggestions though! ~CPU

yorlik · Post by **yorlik** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:40 pm

Just forgot to point out some consequences of what I wrote above:

- No need to PG to level - much time to RP, since gaining XP would be easier
- No way to push levelling by PGing, since there is a time based level cap.
- Still an urge to do something to gain the XP - just hanging around won't get you levels.
- Being able to level regularly, even if not addicted and playing at a normal frequency.

Y.

girlysprite · Post by **girlysprite** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:50 pm

if I may ask; why is crafting and scripted experience not included in the cap? When I ask some superepics how they got so far, so fast, I often hear things as crafting and quest-collector experience.

Albion · Post by **Albion** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:18 pm

There is also a time-based cap of 7000xp/week.

I know i have a life outside of Avlis and i dont play anything like 24/7 but even if i did i very much doubt i could get 7,000 exp in a week.

So how the hell can anybody get that amount of exp in a week.

Just intrested

maxinion · Post by **maxinion** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:21 pm

Albion wrote:
There is also a time-based cap of 7000xp/week.
I know i have a life outside of Avlis and i dont play anything like 24/7 but even if i did i very much doubt i could get 7,000 exp in a week.

So how the hell can anybody get that amount of exp in a week.

Just intrested

Collector quests, like girlysprite said above.

PlasmaJohn · Post by **PlasmaJohn** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:02 pm

I don't see how this helps with the PG "problem" unless you've gotten agreement by the rest of CoPaP to institue the same system and share the tracking. Those who wish to grind XP will go where the XP is.

So the only people this punishes are those who aren't in it for the grind.

Jo' d · Post by **Jo' d** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:29 pm

RSH sez:
"These are just re-named on the fly"

I really like this idea...it adds just a wee bit of 'colour', as the POMEEs would say...

yorlik · Post by **yorlik** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:06 pm

PlasmaJohn wrote:I don't see how this helps with the PG "problem" unless you've gotten agreement by the rest of CoPaP to institue the same system and share the tracking. Those who wish to grind XP will go where the XP is.

So the only people this punishes are those who aren't in it for the grind.

I'm not sure if you wanted to adress my proposal above.
But a possible solution could be, if each PC carries its age (creation date)
on it, at least a discrepancy between age and levels could be determined.

E.G: If there is a cap of 15 days per level, and a level 20 PC is less than 300
days old he couldn't level until this age is reached, even if the PC comes from
another world.
This could probably be done relatively easy with little tewaking to the
portaling code.

yorlik · Post by **yorlik** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:10 pm

Doh - I forgot they still can level on other worlds ... Ouch .. think error.

PlasmaJohn · Post by **PlasmaJohn** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:11 pm

yorlik wrote:I'm not sure if you wanted to adress my proposal above.

No just the general concept of a cap. Without instituting a coordinated cap CoPaP-wide, it's ineffective against the grinders and punishes those that don't.

Nob · Post by **Nob** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:15 pm

PlasmaJohn wrote:
yorlik wrote:I'm not sure if you wanted to adress my proposal above.
No just the general concept of a cap. Without instituting a coordinated cap CoPaP-wide, it's ineffective against the grinders and punishes those that don't.

It seems to me it's a good way to identify the grinders in general from the people who just play a lot.

If folks are going off world regularly to circumvent the cap, it would be fairly obvious based on their levelling habits.

It's not as if the cap affects most players anyway, making it weekly rather than daily helps alleviate most of the "playtime" issues since people can gain xp in bursts.

Jaybob · Post by **Jaybob** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:16 pm

just out of curiosity, does anyone have any sense of how many PC's come to Avlis from elsewhere vs. those that live here (are native to Avlis)?

I understand the issues raised by instituting a policy on one world out a set of linked worlds, i'm just wondering how much travel between the worlds actually happens...

-J

yorlik · Post by **yorlik** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:16 pm

As an addition:
Can overall playtime be logged (in horus a PC has been played) ?

PlasmaJohn · Post by **PlasmaJohn** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:24 pm

Nob wrote:If folks are going off world regularly to circumvent the cap, it would be fairly obvious based on their levelling habits.

The only tracking of portal usage that I'm aware of are the vaultster server logs which would require some extra effort to retrieve and parse along with some retention issues.

yorlik wrote:As an addition:
Can overall playtime be logged (in horus a PC has been played) ?

Not accurately. There are a couple of poor assumptions in the code, not to mention that the clocks are all badly out of sync. And it completely falls apart if the character is an active planeswalker.

The World of Avlis

Now Discussion of "Test Avlis XP and Loot"

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