Rules on the new Detect class of spells

[weeno]

Ok, so I wanted to know from the Team what the rules were on the new spells. My cleric got into an altercation today for casting Detect Good around him, and another lady said that Elysia's Law was against casting such spells. So I have two questions mainly. First, Is casting that an AOE spell, as in can others consider it a hostile cast? I didnt think it was because only the caster should be able to see the results, he is 'feeling' there auras of good or bad or law or chaos. Also, can everyone else see it or just the Caster. I dont see how others can consider this an invasion of privacy since the names given are all OOC. They should not know they were effected, only that the spell was cast and not the results. Correct?

[IceThorn]

Anyone with sufficient Spellcraft skill would know what you're casting, so they'd know if they were within the AoE and what results you should see. Knowing that they could complain, however, I don't know if it's against Elysian law (I doubt that it is - IMO). I wouldn't consider it hostile, but we'll let someone more knowledgeable with Elysian law answer.

[PsiOmega]

As most spell goes by WYSIWYG* then everyone will see the visual effect either you want it or not and it is something you'll have to take into consideration.

And since those who see the spell normally greatly outnumbers those who knows exactly what it is then the situation might be such that we have a caster who might be casting scary, unknown things and who might have to be dealt with as such.


The paragraph below not the opinion or attitude of the Team in any way and may or may not reflect possible IC.

As for the Elysian situation, so according to Elysian law so are you not allowed to cast spells on others without permission besides for certain exceptions or depending on the situation (such as healing spells when someone is dying, etc).
This might not be written down in the public tavern announcement but it clearly states that many laws aren't anyway.

*What You See is What You Get

[Khaelindra]

Detect-spells like that have a target of 1 person, in this case SELF!

The effect of an invisibility spell on yourself is also seen by all in sight, theoretically, but that doesn't make THEM affected by it. You can discuss the social acceptability of a spell that essentially probes into someone's private identity, but the spell itself is cast on the SELF, so noone is affected by it, no more than a True Seeing might affect all those wanting to stay hidden but still is a cast on SELF spell that i see cast at Elf Gate very very often... don't cast it on others without their consent (even if it's only a boon as far as game mechanics go) but casting it on yourself does NOT make it an AoE-spell just because it has a detection range component.

Do not confuse an Area of Effect spell (that affects others) with a TARGET/SELF-spell (that might have an effect out to a certain range or radius). AoE-spells are often cast "on" others in the AoE as well and might therefor be forbidden, but TARGET/SELF-spells are never cast on others than the actual one target.

[Trigger]

AFAIK there is only laws against casting spells on other people. Therefore, noone can complain about you casting a spell on yourself that gives you a bonus in some way.

This is my two cents and I don't know what the official line is.

[PsiOmega]

Others may take offense if it's IC and act accordingly if they recognize the spell even if it's self only and depending on the character the law may or may not be a concern.

As for how the law treats it, that's purely an IC matter and should be dealt as such either IG or using the appropriate tavern.

[Korennya]

I think Icethorn and psiomega got this one. Certain characters will have enough spell craft to know what you just did. It's up to them to make the discission if that spell offended them in anyway. FOr those that don't have enough spell craft.. well you just cast a spell, they saw you do it but they have no clue what you did. Again.. it's they're call what to do, they could jump on your ass cause they might percieve the spell as a threat or they might stand there and see what happens next.

Being that this a supposed to be a role play world, and a RP game for that matter, you as a character should have considered the possible effects that casting you spell would have on other characters before you had cast the spell. Here perception is often more important that the actually effect. THis goes for any spell, wiether it's AOE or self.

If a PC that my main percieves as a shady character is standing alone off to the side of a group and casts a spell like mage armour or protection from alignment when there is no active confrentation around, my PC is going to view that action as a threat. THat spell has no outward affect on my PC other than what she percieves will happen next. This should be the same situation for detect alighnment. Your in essence trying to gauge a characters moral standing without giving them the chance to tell you outright or to lie about it and try to through you off, this is gona peev certain people and you should be prepaired for the consiquences.


As far as if you broke any laws by your actions.. My opinion on that is to FOIG. THere's many way to view that. If you didn't get caught by law enforcement, then well.. you didn't break a law. Elysia also does not support vigilante justice as stated by lemegen officer averias in another IC thread, and there for you character could not legal be held acountable if there was no true law enforcement officer present. This however does not stop lawful characters from trying to do something about what you did if they felt it was unlawful.

Laws are something i think are best left to IG resolution being that there are so many ways that it can be affected.

My 2 cents and not offcial by anymeans.

[CPU]

This is "Ask the Team," not, 'General Discussion." If you wish to discuss this, then please bring it to the appropriate Forum.

[Kerrick]

My two cents: casting a detect spell causes an initiative roll (or a Will save, I forget at least, it does for me) so that could be considered a semi-hostile act. And, according to the holy order PrCs, the detect effect is a 30-ft. radius - it's technically cast "on yourself" but it's an AoE spell.

My PC has no ranks in Spellcraft, but she can still identify spells sometimes, if the roll's high enough.

It may not be against any laws, but I'm sure some people though many choose to openly advertise it with their affiliations (religious orders being the most obvious)would consider it rude at best - their alignment is their business, though many choose to openly advertise it with their affiliations (religious orders being the most obvious). People in disguise, for instance, or the average Joe standing around at the rock or Elf gate may well take offense to having someone trying determine their ethos by magical means.

[Kinarr]

Yes, Detect Alignment does force a will save on everyone nearby, so it's understandable that there is confusion over it. At the very least, someone will know you cast something that could have affected them.

There is a spell just for those who don't want their alignment known, called Undetectable Alignment. Bards, clerics, and paladins can cast this spell which lasts for 24 hours. If you can't cast it yourself, you can have someone cast it on you or scribe it to a scroll (which should now be possible).

[weeno]

Yes, Detect Alignment does force a will save on everyone nearby, so it's understandable that there is confusion over it. At the very least, someone will know you cast something that could have affected them.

True. But the will save is an OOC save right? I mean you cast it, some people are gonna know what you caste for different reasons, but they shouldnt look at there will save and be like "he just casted an AoE spell" because it is all OOC after they see when you cast it.

[Verandis]

Yes, Detect Alignment does force a will save on everyone nearby, so it's understandable that there is confusion over it. At the very least, someone will know you cast something that could have affected them.

When we fail or suceed a will save, does our character know some sort of spell has been cast on them? Or is this OOC information?