Horses & wyverns

Zyndro · Post by **Zyndro** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:38 pm

In case someone in a cave didn't know:

http://store.bioware.com/products/wyverncrown.html

Marleh · Post by **Marleh** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:53 pm

Woah, I thought the premium modules had been cancelled, which is why they were made available on the Vault.

I must live in a cave...

Nob · Post by **Nob** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:08 pm

Yeah, evidently Atari was convinced to do this one final premium mod.

szabot · Post by **szabot** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:18 pm

Marleh wrote:Woah, I thought the premium modules had been cancelled, which is why they were made available on the Vault.

I must live in a cave...

Whoah, are the previous ones available for free on the Vault?

bolo · Post by **bolo** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:23 pm

Cool, nice to know the DLA folks didn't get screwed after all.Then again, with NWN2 coming out next month, maybe Atari figured it didn't matter any more.
I thought the Premium mod program was killed because of this mod.Atari didn't want NWN to have features ( horses) that NWN2 won't.

bolo · Post by **bolo** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:24 pm

szabot wrote:
Marleh wrote:Woah, I thought the premium modules had been cancelled, which is why they were made available on the Vault.

I must live in a cave...
Whoah, are the previous ones available for free on the Vault?

Noit the ones that were for sale, but some that were done when Atari pulled the plug were madfe available, like Darkness Over Daggerford ( great mod btw, maybe the best.)

tygermoon · Post by **tygermoon** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:52 am

Okay, my husband got the DLA mod... and the horses are SWEET!.

Just had to share..

Themicles · Post by **Themicles** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:52 am

I've been playing it almost non-stop since buying it. The exceptions, of course, are sleeping and spending time with Kessa.

Great module so far.

KaiRal Windspar · Post by **KaiRal Windspar** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:16 am

It's funny to me that a new feature rolls out for NWN, and I don't even consider going to the BioWare boards....

I have tasted the sweet fruits of Wyvren Crown, and it is good.

Hot Tip: If you don't want to shell out for a horse in the module? Play a ranger.

Dom Carr · Post by **Dom Carr** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:49 pm

This is probably flogging a dead one, but are there plans to have horses on Avlis?

wolfwielder · Post by **wolfwielder** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:51 pm

I have been playing the module for about a week only thing I do not like about it, is you do not get the option to go back to an area to reinvestigate something if you have moved on to the next part of the story.

Darkfire · Post by **Darkfire** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:11 pm

Dom Carr wrote:This is probably flogging a dead one, but are there plans to have horses on Avlis?

I think it would pretty awsome just from the sounds, but I still haven't tested it out to see all the good and bad things that come along with it

A Wanderer · Post by **A Wanderer** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:38 pm

Well it sure seems like the code is there now. Well an example of how it's done.

Horses in Avlis would be sweet.

TripleAught · Post by **TripleAught** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:02 pm

Dom Carr wrote:This is probably flogging a dead one, but are there plans to have horses on Avlis?

Only if they release the content in the 1.69 patch can we even start to think about it.

(That is not a yes)

chamalscuro · Post by **chamalscuro** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:13 pm

The IC ramifications of horses would be intriguing.

Horses don't exist on Avlis, right?

I've seen donkeys, I've seen mules, etc. Can't recall seeing any horses.

The introduction of horses would change the course of Avlis history, alter battle tactics, etc.

OOCly I would think that only low level characters would use them. Anybody out of the single-digit levels would get frustrated having their horses killed out from underneath them every battle. Now, if monstrous mounts were introduced as well, that would be more viable for the higher levels.

Interesting...

TripleAught · Post by **TripleAught** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:31 pm

Yes, all ideas around horses are intriguing.

And they all require Custom Content. Until the functional horses are released, we can't do anything with them (as I said before)

And even if they are released, someone in the community would have to re-skin them with Monstrous phenotypes before we could do anything with those.

So, I'm changing my answer. NO, Avlis will not do horses. But we might use the horses created by other people should they become available to us.

Nob · Post by **Nob** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:34 pm

chamalscuro wrote:The IC ramifications of horses would be intriguing.

Horses don't exist on Avlis, right?

I've seen donkeys, I've seen mules, etc. Can't recall seeing any horses.

The introduction of horses would change the course of Avlis history, alter battle tactics, etc.

Err, horses do quite exist on Avlis, as does cavalry tactics and the like...so no, there wouldn't be any real IC ramifications of horses being playable mounts.

Fuzz · Post by **Fuzz** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:28 pm

Avlissian horses originated in Kurathene and were spread to a lot of the continent in the last several thousand years, with new breeds developing in other areas.

If I was to wager a guess based on how the history is laid out, you'd find them basically everywhere but Drotid, Jechran, Galdos, Deglos, and Tyedu... they might not be too prevalent in Toran Sharda, either, since Dracon and Wemics don't really need horses for anything, and there are very few bipeds there. In Ferrell they might have a dwarf horse breed, possibly ponies. But yeah... the entire eastern and southern side of the continent would have them, they just aren't represented IG in NWN due to engine limitations.

chamalscuro · Post by **chamalscuro** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:52 pm

Ahh... I see. Well, one could be excused for thinking that they didn't exist since you can't see them and nobody talks about them.

OK, NWN ignoramus speaking here... Do just plain non-ridable horses exist as standard NWN content? *scratches head*

Brayon · Post by **Brayon** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:11 pm

chamalscuro wrote:OK, NWN ignoramus speaking here... Do just plain non-ridable horses exist as standard NWN content? *scratches head*

Simple Answer: No.

Complex: Bioware did not make a Horse model in the basic program. The community has a few out there, but the majority look cheesy.

Cavet: There is dm_littlepony, but you have to be in DebugMode to use it.

Marleh · Post by **Marleh** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:20 pm

Brayon wrote:
chamalscuro wrote:OK, NWN ignoramus speaking here... Do just plain non-ridable horses exist as standard NWN content? *scratches head*
Simple Answer: No.

Complex: Bioware did not make a Horse model in the basic program. The community has a few out there, but the majority look cheesy.

Cavet: There is dm_littlepony, but you have to be in DebugMode to use it.

Simple Answer: Yes, they were released with the update that included all the Pirates of the Sword Coast additions, if I'm not mistaken.

So far Ive seen three different horses that look great, including a cute little pony that the DM allowed a changeling to copy. The player of the changeling happens to be a big horselover, and she rp'ed the little thing fantasticly.

chamalscuro · Post by **chamalscuro** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:47 pm

I was just curious, thinking maybe we could get horses so they're at least visible IG. *shrugs*

That pony is a regular spawn, BTW, if you know where to look. My changeling alt already has that one, and the donkey nearby as well. They're cute.

Themicles · Post by **Themicles** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 2:27 am

The horses in Wyvern Crown of Cormyr required engine changes to be implemented properly. This is the real reason 1.68 was pushed out so quickly and unexpectedly... It had the required support for WCoC to even work!

This implementation includes Mounted Combat and Mounted Archery feats.

Mounting and dismounting the horse is done through script, which is fired by the use of two feats that all characters automatically get. One feat is for mounting while the other is for dismounting. Dismounting has an animation... Mounting looks like it was supposed to, but you seem to always pop onto the horse.

Warning: Slightly, to not so slightly, technical stuff ahead (depending on what you know about NWN's guts).

The real way the system works is through use of phenotypes and tails.

When you are mounted, the horse model itself is actually in the tail slot of the dynamic model appearance. What makes your character model look mounted is the phenotype.

So, as some of you might be guessing right now... if you set the horse model in the tail slot without setting the correct phenotype... it looks rather silly... VERY silly... well, you see... uhh... The horse ends up on your head...

You also may be guessing that this results in a lot of duplicate horse models. The ones for mounted, and the ones as unmounted creatures.

I would hazard a guess that the engine changes were to support the phenotypes (either the number of them over some limit that there was, or the size, or way they are done) and the way the horses are used in the tale part of the dynamic models (certainly not a limit in number of tails, but possibly how they are done. After all, if you put a horse in the tail slot without setting phenotype, the horse is on your head, above the ground, where if the phenotype is set, the horse is ON the ground).

What does this mean for implementing in a persistent world?

Well, what it means for us is that it would *have* to be a CoPaP wide change. You and the horse literally become one as far as the game engine is concerned. Yes, that means the horse is not damaged separately when you're mounted.

Now that's just model-wise and character BIC-wise.

What about the fact that there is obviously a big scripting system under all this that actually (pretty much literally) puts these pieces together? That's not exposed to us at this time. While the haks for the premium module came unencrypted, the module did not. I think I read somewhere from someone connected to DLA that they're working on a release form of the scripted system... But I could be mistaken. I wasn't clear on the user's post.

So, let's get on hunting down that scripting and implementing these horses, right?!

Sorry, but no. Right now, the wise decision would be to wait and see if BioWare can/will put it in 1.69. 1.69 is the last and final patch, but it is still up for approvals. If Wizards of the Coast (or Hasbro, whatever) and Atari don't approve of BioWare patching the horses in, well then we'll have to implement them ourselves and hope DLA releases the script package.

But wait! What about jousting?

Jousting is purely scripted. It uses a separate "jousting" phenotype, a dialog for you to choose where to aim and how you want to ride, and a lance item. Sorry but lances don't appear to be useable as plain weapons. It might be possible, with the scripts they wrote, to implement jousting on a PW, but there are a few problems I've noticed.

I've noticed my NPC opponents pop up in the bottom right of my screen after a bout, and then warp, sometimes visibly flying across the screen diagonally, to where they should be for the slow ride past each other where the NPC will often make some comment.
The shield image that shows you the target point abbreviations in their respective locations. I can almost guarantee that would be visible to anyone in the stands, as it's probably done the same way the useable map hak was done a long time ago. As in a VFX or placeable, or something along those lines. Can't quite remember.
Well, I doubt the script set that is used in Wyvern Crown of Cormyr is set up to handle both of the jousters being players.

So, really, will we see horses in CoPaP?

I sure as hell want to do it. If BioWare patches them in, that makes things easy. If not, I'll seek CoPaP approval, and work my ass off to get them in and working properly. I know I want jousting tournaments on Tairis!

cgruquet · Post by **cgruquet** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:17 am

Bolo wrote:
szabot wrote:
Marleh wrote:Woah, I thought the premium modules had been cancelled, which is why they were made available on the Vault.

I must live in a cave...
Whoah, are the previous ones available for free on the Vault?
Noit the ones that were for sale, but some that were done when Atari pulled the plug were madfe available, like Darkness Over Daggerford ( great mod btw, maybe the best.)

Ok so im confused, dose this mean that som eof the past preimum mods are now available for free download? Or are there "professonal" mods from bioware availible, and in either case where do i DL them?

Brayon · Post by **Brayon** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:23 am

Marleh wrote:
Brayon wrote:
chamalscuro wrote:OK, NWN ignoramus speaking here... Do just plain non-ridable horses exist as standard NWN content? *scratches head*
Simple Answer: No.

Complex: Bioware did not make a Horse model in the basic program. The community has a few out there, but the majority look cheesy.

Cavet: There is dm_littlepony, but you have to be in DebugMode to use it.
Simple Answer: Yes, they were released with the update that included all the Pirates of the Sword Coast additions, if I'm not mistaken.

So far Ive seen three different horses that look great, including a cute little pony that the DM allowed a changeling to copy. The player of the changeling happens to be a big horselover, and she rp'ed the little thing fantasticly.

My Bad. I have not used the toolset since 1.65. Sorry about that.