Literate Barbarians

Faddy · Post by **Faddy** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:49 pm

Hello, I was wondering how you would role-play a literate barbarian. I know the Player's Handbook says you have to spend 2 skill points to become literate if you're a barbarian, but you don't have that option in neverwinter nights. I would just like to know how I would be able to role-play this out.

Krator · Post by **Krator** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:51 pm

Well, I'd say, just do it.

If you want to do that "Two skill points" thing, you might roleplay that he has a minor RP thing he isn't very good at. For example, swimming.

gwydion2 · Post by **gwydion2** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:10 pm

You can happily assume you are illiterate. It simply means you won't post in the IC boards. Maybe you could ask someone else to write notes on the boards for you IC? Might be ineresting to RP.

Alternatively, Lore is something of a catchall skill, you could take a couple of ranks in it and assume you have learned to read.

miyafawyn · Post by **miyafawyn** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:35 pm

finding someone to teach you to read and write may be fun too...or you could just have that be a part of your backstory, or something too..

ronnin · Post by **ronnin** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:24 am

Use the Lore skill and put points in would be an interesting idea. There are barbarain Clans in history that had a writing system based on symbols or runic writing that they had meaning instead of words.

deltak · Post by **deltak** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:58 am

I think putting a couple skill points in Lore is a great idea. Of course, Lore is very useful in-game for IDing items. So you might intend on doing that anyways, which isn't the intent of 'burning' 2 skill points to be literate.

So, maybe it would be better to put them in a skill we know to be useless. Like one of the 'Craft XYZ' skills. IIRC those are class skills for everyone, so you could even spread out your point spending over 2 or more levels to simulate learning the written word?

- dK

Talwin Hawkins · Post by **Talwin Hawkins** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:07 am

deltak wrote:I think putting a couple skill points in Lore is a great idea. Of course, Lore is very useful in-game for IDing items. So you might intend on doing that anyways, which isn't the intent of 'burning' 2 skill points to be literate.

So, maybe it would be better to put them in a skill we know to be useless. Like one of the 'Craft XYZ' skills. IIRC those are class skills for everyone, so you could even spread out your point spending over 2 or more levels to simulate learning the written word?

- dK

I think thats a bad idea, as you stated these are useless and to me makes no IC sense anyways. The idea of putting points in Lore makes much more sense to me.

Alphonse · Post by **Alphonse** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:11 am

this all seems kind of pointless to me to be putting it into skills, especially if the character gets multiclassed.

from my point of view, making sure you have an average int seems more relevant to being able to read and write than putting skill points into a vaguely appropriate skill. The bodging a skill to fit PnP just feels kinda cheesy

deltak · Post by **deltak** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:26 am

Talwin Hawkins wrote:
deltak wrote:I think putting a couple skill points in Lore is a great idea. Of course, Lore is very useful in-game for IDing items. So you might intend on doing that anyways, which isn't the intent of 'burning' 2 skill points to be literate.

So, maybe it would be better to put them in a skill we know to be useless. Like one of the 'Craft XYZ' skills. IIRC those are class skills for everyone, so you could even spread out your point spending over 2 or more levels to simulate learning the written word?

- dK
I think thats a bad idea, as you stated these are useless and to me makes no IC sense anyways. The idea of putting points in Lore makes much more sense to me.

It makes some sense, but it also gives you an in-game benefit. In PnP you spend 2 skill points just for the ability to read and write. Nothing else.

Alphonse wrote:this all seems kind of pointless to me to be putting it into skills, especially if the character gets multiclassed.

from my point of view, making sure you have an average int seems more relevant to being able to read and write than putting skill points into a vaguely appropriate skill. The bodging a skill to fit PnP just feels kinda cheesy

And yet, we make so many changes to the mechanics of the game to make it less like NWN and more like PnP.
The 3E PHB clearly states that Barbarians do not start literate, and must spend skill points to become literate. I don't think it is pointless... playing a Barbarian who had not invested in literacy, yet knew exactly how to get from one place to the next his first time (It's written on the roadsigns... oops, not supposed to be able to read) would be metagaming.

- dK

Talwin Hawkins · Post by **Talwin Hawkins** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:45 am

deltak wrote:
Talwin Hawkins wrote:
deltak wrote:I think putting a couple skill points in Lore is a great idea. Of course, Lore is very useful in-game for IDing items. So you might intend on doing that anyways, which isn't the intent of 'burning' 2 skill points to be literate.

So, maybe it would be better to put them in a skill we know to be useless. Like one of the 'Craft XYZ' skills. IIRC those are class skills for everyone, so you could even spread out your point spending over 2 or more levels to simulate learning the written word?

- dK
I think thats a bad idea, as you stated these are useless and to me makes no IC sense anyways. The idea of putting points in Lore makes much more sense to me.
It makes some sense, but it also gives you an in-game benefit. In PnP you spend 2 skill points just for the ability to read and write. Nothing else.

Alphonse wrote:this all seems kind of pointless to me to be putting it into skills, especially if the character gets multiclassed.

from my point of view, making sure you have an average int seems more relevant to being able to read and write than putting skill points into a vaguely appropriate skill. The bodging a skill to fit PnP just feels kinda cheesy
And yet, we make so many changes to the mechanics of the game to make it less like NWN and more like PnP.
The 3E PHB clearly states that Barbarians do not start literate, and must spend skill points to become literate. I don't think it is pointless... playing a Barbarian who had not invested in literacy, yet knew exactly how to get from one place to the next his first time (It's written on the roadsigns... oops, not supposed to be able to read) would be metagaming.

- dK

Though this is a case of "Good" metagaming in my opinion. Thats like saying i log on and look at the character list for a group of friends, dont see anyone on and therefore decide to go to another server. This is an example of Good metagaming as it makes it more fun for the player. The idea of your barbarian being already literate seems a mute point to me, if you want him to be literate, go ahead and do it. If you REALLY want to put skill points into something then Lore is the closest one NWN has. If you want a STAT to recognise your literary skills then as Alphonse said, Int is the way to go.

loki70 · Post by **loki70** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:56 am

Actually, some people have been very sucessful as illiterate barbarians (Ed, anyone) and others have an incredibly high Lore and Int, which does not in itself denote literacy, but learning capacity. If you want to play a literate barbarian, my vote is for RPing it out. Don't "burn" skill points or throw stat points into skills you won't use otherwise and don't directly relate to learning to read. It's up to you to decide stuff like that for your PC, but by RPing it out, you also get the interaction, the world connection, and possibly even an IG friend. By just throwing numbers at your character sheet, you just get some numbers on your character sheet.

Talwin Hawkins · Post by **Talwin Hawkins** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:09 pm

loki70 wrote:Actually, some people have been very sucessful as illiterate barbarians (Ed, anyone) and others have an incredibly high Lore and Int, which does not in itself denote literacy, but learning capacity. If you want to play a literate barbarian, my vote is for RPing it out. Don't "burn" skill points or throw stat points into skills you won't use otherwise and don't directly relate to learning to read. It's up to you to decide stuff like that for your PC, but by RPing it out, you also get the interaction, the world connection, and possibly even an IG friend. By just throwing numbers at your character sheet, you just get some numbers on your character sheet.

Good advice.

pincushionman · Post by **pincushionman** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:22 pm

Or you can save two skill points at every level-up, and those are your "burned" points. AFAIK, that's not an option in PnP, but the NWN engine allows it.

itsabughunt · Post by **itsabughunt** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:27 pm

IIRC, in the movie "Conan the Barbarian" that after he was captured and showed promise as a warrior Conan was taught to read, among other things. I'm not exactly sure why his owner/master would bother teaching him to read, but it was interesting anyway.

Perhaps your barbarian has some personal goal or "quest" that requires literacy to fulfill? Or maybe your character encountered a situation where his or her lack of education was an extreme liability? That could lead to a personal decision to acquire skills in reading/writing. Or maybe your character is just more interested in the ways of the world than the average barbarian. Just because a barbarian leaves his tribe illiterate doesnt mean he can't decide to acquire that skill later. There are quite varied degrees of literacy as well.

Grunt · Post by **Grunt** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:53 pm

Roleplay it!

Start one of those hip "A barbarian is seen in a library" threads.

In the great library of Mikona, a man with a large axe is seen looking through books. Not seeing any pictures of naked women, he casts them onto the floor with a loud THUD.

Of course, he notices the sign that says "Quiet, Please"...but it means nothing to him because he can't read. The librarian would tell him to be quiet, but doesn't want to be a hypocrite by yelling over to him, and besides he has a big axe!

Finally, he comes across a book with pictures, titled "A Malekite's guide to the Alphabet through sacrifice"...he sees pictures and words, and wonders what it all means...

*Later on...*

'A is for Apple, stuck in the mouth of a pig or willing vicim...' the Barbarian's mother reads....

At level-up, add to lore or int, whichever you feel justified with, maybe even both... or even wisdom, as that can be gained from books as well as life.

A nice effort to try to stick to PnP but hey, there's plenty of PnP stuff that's missing from NWN Avlis, why sacrifice skill points to nothing?

Fire Monkey · Post by **Fire Monkey** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:36 pm

pincushionman wrote:Or you can save two skill points at every level-up, and those are your "burned" points. AFAIK, that's not an option in PnP, but the NWN engine allows it.

Saving up skill points on level up is not allowed for any reason OTHER than keeping a point to take a cross class skill. Doing so and then saying that it was for RP purposes won't cut the mustard if the Team want to know why you have that skill point surplus.