Kikikikiki!!!!!!

[Pleco]

Ki Strike.

Does it work with shifter forms?

Does it work with any other shifted forms (eg. wildshape, shapechange, polymorph)?

[NWDuneAuron]

Monk attacks (stunning fist etc) are usable with all unarmed attacks. So Ki Strike *should* take effect, so long as the form is unarmed.

((Edited to include... y'know... relevance? >.<))

[Final Shinryuu]

Any and every form that uses an "unarmed strike" as an attack.
That's all druid wildshapes and elemental shapes,
All shapes from the Polymorph and Shapechange spell
Few or none of the shifter forms. (they all use weapons)

EDIT: I think Pleco is referring to the monk's unarmed Ki Strike?

[RCon]

I thought quite a few of the Shifter forms are unarmed?

[NWDuneAuron]

Flurry of Blows works with wyrmling and so on, so I guess Ki Strike should?

[Gairus]

I can envisage the invisible creature claws/bites screwing with this.

[Serineth Swiftpaw]

Shifter forms it doesn't work with are...
Minotaur, Drider, Drow, Kobold, Lizardman, Rashaka.

Don't think I missed any.

Just an FYI, if a level 30 Druid takes 1 level of monk, their AB becomes that of a monk (stupidly high) and they suddenly go from 3 attacks a round to 6 as well as getting their (probably very, very high) Wisdom added to their AC. So when they use their shift forms, they become completely insane. Either Bioware should fix this or it should be an illegal combo to be honest.

[Zyndro]

I agree with Neth. Some people have been surprised at how powerful my character has become. He helped out during one army mission because they asked for EAV support, and he didn't even have to drink one potion the entire time. I think he lost about 15 hp during the entire 4 hour event.

My shifter character does not have monk levels.

Add a monk level to that, and the power level would more than double. That's just insane.

[Malathyre]

I think the druid x/shifter y/monk 1 build is pretty well documented, probably about as well as the 1 paladin/19 sorc build.

Zyndro, your character is level 30 or so, right? I'd expect him to be able to hold his own most of the time.

[Serineth Swiftpaw]

I don't mean always a single level, I mean in general. It shouldn't work as creatures use special attacks and creature weapons. Not unarmed fist attacks.

[Ravan Seiryu]

Unarmed feats that works with unarmed form,
Improved critical: unarmed
Monk unarmed AB
Stunning fist,
Quiverling palm

Weapon focus and specialization will not work with unarmed form. Probably because of creature weapon on unarmed forms. Ki strike and any other weapon specific feat should work on armed form that use specific weapon, matching the chosen weapon.

Just an FYI, if a level 30 Druid takes 1 level of monk, their AB becomes that of a monk (stupidly high) and they suddenly go from 3 attacks a round to 6 as well as getting their (probably very, very high) Wisdom added to their AC. So when they use their shift forms, they become completely insane. Either Bioware should fix this or it should be an illegal combo to be honest.

Hmm, shifter will be quite powerful with monk. But druid on the other hand, will be hard to kill and hit... but will suffer from lack of enhancement on creature weapons in most case. I've tested it on single player mod, and found that most epic critters, I could not damage. Since I can't penetrate their DR. Actually works well with my char concept. But if you plan on it, don't expect it to kick ass. ((I am bit skewed in my oppinion as, one of my char took monk early on, when he was trained by friend and did not know that Druid/monk was frowned upon))

[Zyndro]

I don't see a problem with druid/monk. I was refering specificaly to shifter/druid/monks. The druid shapes aren't that powerful, so it's not as much of an exploit as a shifter/druid/monk is, unless you plan on getting dragon shape feat as a druid/monk.

[Ravan Seiryu]

I might, but then again I'm at lvl 13 and dragon shape isn't available till lvl 33 or there abouts for the char, even if he devoted everything he had toward it.

[Pleco]

So basically nobody knows?

Right then, guess I'll go spend a few hours testing it because you guys would rather argue. If you want to complain about shifters and monks go do it in the R&R forum and stop spamming up my thread.


edit: Sorry. I just wonder sometimes why I bother asking...

[Ravan Seiryu]

Hm, I did answer that Specific weapon feats will work, if the weapon shifted form weilds matches. But here you go.

For Weapon master:

Abilities which apply to all Shapes:
Ki Damage
Abilities which transfer only to armed shape, and only if Weapon Of Choice is matching the weapon held by the shape.
Weapon Of Choice, Increased [Critical] Multiplier, Superior Weapon Focus, Ki Critical
Abilities which do not transfer:
(None)

Reasoning goes, if shape is unarmed (i.e. Creature weapon). Then none of unarmed specific or weapon specific will work with them. Only exception being, Improved Critical: Unarmed.

However, be very careful in doing this, as Avlis is not static and forms have been changed from original. You should join Druid and Ranger forum as well as search info on shifter form.

[modigliani]

So basically nobody knows?

Right then, guess I'll go spend a few hours testing it because you guys would rather argue. If you want to complain about shifters and monks go do it in the R&R forum and stop spamming up my thread.

[Pleco]

*reads Ravan's post and proceeds to have a nervous breakdown*

Ki Strike
Type of Feat: Class
Prerequisite: Monk 10
Specifics: The character’s unarmed strike attack counts as a magic
weapon against creatures with damage reduction (+1 at 10th level, +2 at 13th, +3 at 16th).
Use: Automatic


From what I've seen, it varies sporadically between forms.

For example a 2d4 clawed manticore doesn't use ki strike but a 1d6 clawed red wyrmling does.

[Ravan Seiryu]

Heh, didn't realize too many feats with Ki.

Well, Ki strike is hard to test on shifter. As many unarmed form will get natural DR on their hide. This will allow them to bypass DR of creature. So for instance, Epic Manticore gets 5/+20. So without any other enhancement, they could bypass Epic Warding.

Examples of DR on unarmed forms.

Gargoyle shape: DR 15/+1
Epic Gargoyle shape: DR 25/+7
Epic manticore: DR 5/+20
Vampire: DR 15/+1 (will likely get changed in Avlis)
Spectre: DR 15/+4 (will likely get changed in Avlis)
Death Slaad lord: DR 10/+5
Stone Golem: DR 15/+3
Demon Flesh Golem: DR 30/+3
Iron Golem: DR 20/+4
Dragon: DR 40/+6 (likely already changed in Avlis)

Also note that Dragons get +6 enhancement on their claws.

[Pleco]

The DR on the hides only affects the damage incoming.

If you have 15/+1 DR, it will protect you from 15 damage in any single blow of a weapon below +1 enhancement

If you have Ki Strike 1, your fists are counted as +1 enchanted weapons. This is not true for some weaponless forms, though I don't know why it isn't true.

Unless it's an Avlis change, I didn't know Dragons got +6 enchanted claws. I'm sure they had non-enchanted claws.

[Final Shinryuu]

The DR on the hides only affects the damage incoming.

If you have 15/+1 DR, it will protect you from 15 damage in any single blow of a weapon below +1 enhancement

If you have Ki Strike 1, your fists are counted as +1 enchanted weapons. This is not true for some weaponless forms, though I don't know why it isn't true.

Unless it's an Avlis change, I didn't know Dragons got +6 enchanted claws. I'm sure they got non-enchanted claws.

The natural weapons of any monster can bypass damage reduction equal to that of the monster's own Damage reduction.

IE: the dragon with x/+6 can bypass +6 DR.

This is true in PnP, NwN, and Avlis.

[Malathyre]

*reads Ravan's post and proceeds to have a nervous breakdown*

Ki Strike
Type of Feat: Class
Prerequisite: Monk 10
Specifics: The character’s unarmed strike attack counts as a magic
weapon against creatures with damage reduction (+1 at 10th level, +2 at 13th, +3 at 16th).
Use: Automatic


From what I've seen, it varies sporadically between forms.

For example a 2d4 clawed manticore doesn't use ki strike but a 1d6 clawed red wyrmling does.

The best I can do is to tell you that in version 1.62, Ki Strike worked with all unarmed forms. I have no idea which forms it still works with, if any.

[Zyndro]

Believe it or not, there are guides online. A couple minutes of searching found me this:

(3.1) Barbarian

Abilities which apply to all Shapes:
Rage, Barbarian Fast Movement, Uncanny Dodge, Damage Reduction
Abilities which do not transfer:
(None)

(3.2) Bard

Abilities which apply to all Shapes:
Bardic Knowledge, Bardic Music
Abilities which do not transfer:
Arcane Spellcasting

(3.3) Cleric

Abilities which apply to all Shapes:
Turn Undead, summoning Domain Powers
Abilities which do not transfer:
Divine Spellcasting, Spontaneous Cast, bonus spell Domain Powers

(3.4) Druid

Abilities which apply to all Shapes:
Animal Companion, Nature Sense, Woodland Stride, Trackless Step, Resist
Nature's Lure, Wild Shape, Venom Immunity, Elemental Shape, Dragon Shape
(merged with the Shifter Dragon Shape)
Abilities which do not transfer:
Divine Spellcasting

(3.5) Fighter

Abilities which apply to all Shapes:
Weapon Specialization (if the Shape uses the Specialized weapon)
Abilities which do not transfer:
(None)

(3.6) Monk

Unarmed Attack - Unarmed Shapes use the Monk Unarmed BAB chart (an additional
attack each 3 levels, versus 5 for other classes). Shapes that
use a weapon do not. Monk unarmed damage is not.
Wisdom AC bonus - Yes. With 30 WS (to attain Dragon Shape), that's
a whopping +10 to AC for a single level of Monk. Sweet!
Abilities which apply to all Shapes:
Cleave, Evasion, Monk Speed, Deflect Arrows @CHECK, Still Mind, Purity Of
Body, Knockdown, Improved Knockdown, Wholeness Of Body, Improved Evasion,
Diamond Body, Diamond Soul, Empty Body, Perfect Self
Abilities which apply to unarmed Shapes only:
Improved Unarmed Strike, Flurry Of Blows, Stunning Fist, Ki Strike, Quivering
Palm
Abilities which do not transfer:
(None)

(3.7) Paladin

Abilities which apply to all Shapes:
Divine Grace, Divine Health, Lay On Hands, Aura Of Courage, Smite Evil, Turn
Undead, Remove Disease
Abilities which do not transfer:
Divine Spellcasting

(3. Ranger

Abilities which apply to all Shapes:
Ambidexterity/Two-Weapon Fighting/Improved Two Weapon Fighting (not that it
will do you any good, since none of your Shapes is a Two-Weapon fighter),
Trackless Step, Favored Enemy, Animal Companion (replaces your Druid Animal
Companion, however; you can't have two)
Abilities which do not transfer:
Divine Spellcasting

(3.9) Rogue

Abilities which apply to all Shapes:
Sneak Attack, Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, Crippling Strike, Opportunist, Skill
Mastery, Slippery Mind, Improved Evasion, Defensive Roll
Abilities which do not transfer:
(None)

(3.10) Sorcerer

Abilities which apply to all Shapes:
Summon Familiar
Abilities which do not transfer:
Arcane Spellcasting, Metamagic Feats

(3.11) Wizard

Abilities which apply to all Shapes:
Summon Familiar
Abilities which do not transfer:
Arcane Spellcasting, Metamagic Feats

(3.12) Arcane Archer

The Druid/Shifter/Arcane Archer combination is not possible.

(3.13) Assassin

Abilities which apply to all Shapes:
Death Attack, Uncanny Dodge, Poison Resist, Assassin Bonus Spells
Abilities which do not transfer:
(None)

(3.14) Blackguard

Abilities which apply to all Shapes:
Smite Good, Dark Blessing, Turn Undead, Create Undead, Sneak Attack (and it
does stack with Kobold Commando's Sneak Attack), Summon Fiend, Blackguard
Bonus Spells
Abilities which do not transfer:
(None)

(3.15) Champion Of Torm

Abilities which apply to all Shapes:
Lay On Hands, Sacred Defense, Smite Evil, Divine Wrath
Abilities which do not transfer:
(None)

(3.16) Dwarven Defender

Abilities which apply to all Shapes:
Defensive Stance, Defensive Awareness, Damage Reduction
Abilities which do not transfer:
(None)

(3.17) Harper Scout

Abilities which apply to all Shapes:
Harper Knowledge, Favored Enemy, Deneir's Eye, Tymora's Smile, Lliira's
Heart, Harper Scout Bonus Spells, Craft Harper Item
Abilities which do not transfer:
(None)

(3.18) Pale Master

The Druid/Shifter/Pale Master combination is not possible.

(3.19) Red Dragon Disciple

The Druid/Shifter/Red Dragon Disciple combination is not possible.

(3.20) Shadowdancer

Abilities which apply to all Shapes:
Hide In Plain Sight, Uncanny Dodge, Darkvision, Evasion, Shadow Daze, Summon
Shadow, Shadow Evade, Defensive Roll, Slippery Mind, Improved Evasion
Abilities which do not transfer:
(None)

(3.21) Weapon Master

Abilities which apply to all Shapes:
Ki Damage
Abilities which transfer only to Drider, and only if Weapon Of Choice is spear:
Weapon Of Choice, Increased [Critical] Multiplier, Superior Weapon Focus, Ki
Critical
Abilities which do not transfer:
(None)

[Pleco]

That makes sense, I didn't know that Shinryuu

I'm still confused though.

Normal manticores don't get DR, but also don't use ki strike, yet epic manticores get DR and so they get enchanted claws.

Wyrmlings don't get any DR and so don't have enchanted claws, yet they do use Ki strike.

It's awfully confused :\

[Zyndro]

Zyndro, your character is level 30 or so, right? I'd expect him to be able to hold his own most of the time.

That's my point. If he's the right power level for a 29, and a shifter with a level of monk would be twice as powerful, then a monk version of him would be effectively... almost level 60 in effective power level. It would effectively pwn Ed even if it had no equipment.