Counterspelling

[Lucien]

Quick questions:

1. Can you counterspell a spell-like class ability? Assassin's Invisibility or Darkness, for example--can these be counterspelled with Invisibility, Darkness, or a dispel in counterspell mode?

1a. Conversely, if you have spell-like class abilities such as those mentioned above and enough Spellcraft points, can your class ability counter the same exact spell if cast by a caster?

2. How does a metamagic'd spell affect counterspelling? Can Extended Haste be countered with simple Haste or Dispel Magic?

3. Bards get Lesser Dispel as a level 1 spell. Can this counter a cleric's second level spell, since for clerics Lesser Dispel is level 2?

4. Once you have a message in your serverbox that "X is casting Y," do you have a chance to counter it, or will your action occur in the round after the spell is cast? Is this initative based?

Thanks.

[Nob]

1. IIRC Spell-like abilities can be countered. I've seen this done with things like domination gaze, though I'm not sure how exactly the DC or level for these are determined. One difference between supernatural and spell-like abilities is this countering piece, I think.

1a. I don't know.

2. Formerly, metamagiced spells were uncounterable. Now all you need is the equivilant level metamagic feat (for example: extend, still and silence are all interchangable when countering the other), One thing to note here is that when countering you'll use one use of the BASE level spell (ie: Peregryne is casting empowered Color Spray, Miette counters, the spell used for countering will be a normal color spray, not the empowered)

3. Lesser Dispel will counter the same spell, regardless of the level it is for each caster. I think there was something of a bug with this where bards were able to counter all 2nd level spells using lesser, but I haven't checked lately.

4. Need to check that, don't know.

[mortzestus]

Quick questions:

1. Can you counterspell a spell-like class ability? Assassin's Invisibility or Darkness, for example--can these be counterspelled with Invisibility, Darkness, or a dispel in counterspell mode?

In general, no. However i haven't tested all of them and perhaps a few could be countered. The ones i have in mind are those that display two messages "is casting" and "casts" instead of just "casts".

1a. Conversely, if you have spell-like class abilities such as those mentioned above and enough Spellcraft points, can your class ability counter the same exact spell if cast by a caster?

No. What's more, if your character doesn't have any levels in a casting class he won't even get the counterspell option in the radial menu.

2. How does a metamagic'd spell affect counterspelling? Can Extended Haste be countered with simple Haste or Dispel Magic?

A while ago (before SoU) you couldn't counter spells manipulated with metamagic feats but now i think it's possible. Also, quickened spells are supposed to not be susceptible to counterspelling.

3. Bards get Lesser Dispel as a level 1 spell. Can this counter a cleric's second level spell, since for clerics Lesser Dispel is level 2?

Bardic dispels are a special case. Their lesser dispel serves as a universal counter for all spells of level 2 and below (even though lesser dispel is level 1 for them). Their regular dispel magic is a universal counter for all spells of level 3 and below (like for everybody else). But their greater dispelling is a level 5 spell for bards and even though its innate level is 6 it's only possible to counter spells of level 5 and below with it.

To sum up, the answer to this question is yes.

4. Once you have a message in your serverbox that "X is casting Y," do you have a chance to counter it, or will your action occur in the round after the spell is cast? Is this initative based?

No. When you see that message the casting has already begun and you have lost your chance to counter. The only way is to already be in counterspell mode before the enemy begins casting.

EDIT: Added something to the 1a answer.

[Krator]

Can you counter a metamagiced spell when you can cast the spell, have the metamagic feat but cannot cast the metamagiced version of the spell?

For example:
Krator Blackfist has chain lightning (level 6) and empower spell (+2). He is in counterspell mode. He cannot cast level 8 spells. Sidhe Wizard decides to throw empowered chain lightning at Krator. Can he counter it?

[Sojan]

as I believe it Mr Krator, you can counter a spell with the same name or I think, with the same school thus it might be a higher DC to counter, buth whether the spell you try to counter is affected by one or more metamagic feat, the only thing you have to be able to do is cast the spell.

So, in your exemple, if you are countering the wizard who empower his chain lightning and you have chain lightning in your today's allotment of spells, you will be able to do so...if you beat his DC. Sometimes you don't succeed in countering a higher level caster.

Hope this helps and if anyone has more details about countering with the same school when you do not have the same spell ready, I'd like to read about it.

thanks

[Krator]

today's allotment of spells

Another reason why sorcerers pwn wizards.

[Sojan]

That is why I think it is possible to counter a spell of the same school...when you don't have the spell being cast ready. So a wizard casting Flame Arrow (I think is Evocation) could be countered by another wizard who don't have Flame Arrow in his today's allotment but has another Evocation spell of the same level (in this case 3rd I think). Or any dispel magic (lesser, normal or greater) that is equal or higher than the spell level of the spell being cast.

Well...that's it I guess...

[Arandil]

Another reason why sorcerers pwn wizards.

Feel free to labour under this delusion.

[Serineth Swiftpaw]

Another reason why sorcerers pwn wizards.

Feel free to labour under this delusion.

Sorcs do pwn for Counterspelling...

[Arandil]

That's more like it. Yes, they do.

[Dirk Cutlass]

Yay for Counterspelling! Not enough of it done these days. All you young mages out there... in my day we used to train Counterspelling regularly, a good understanding of it was even part of the entry requirements for the Ashen Order!

The last person I saw counterspelling was me, and I died over a year ago!

*signed*
The Ghost of Samuel Rowanbough


(I know this is OOC forum, but everything I had to say was entirely IC and I couldn't resist )

[ave]

Idiotic question of the day:

How can a mage counterspell. And i mean what button should i press to do it? How this thing happens mechanicaly ? Through the radial? Can one quickslot the counterspell somehow? And finally , can a mage counterspell using one counterspell the spells of several other hostile mages present with 1 counterspell or he needs as many as the other mages? All this time I haven't figured out all that

[Serineth Swiftpaw]

Idiotic question of the day:

How can a mage counterspell. And i mean what button should i press to do it? How this thing happens mechanicaly ? Through the radial? Can one quickslot the counterspell somehow? And finally , can a mage counterspell using one counterspell the spells of several other hostile mages present with 1 counterspell or he needs as many as the other mages? All this time I haven't figured out all that

Hover over the person you want to counter. Bring up the radial menu, "Cast Spell" >> "Spell Special Abilities" >> "Counterspell". You will then counter any spell that they cast that you also have memorised as long as you itentify it (there are also some that can work against other spells as well).

[Drysh]

By the way.. I cannot quickslot the counterspell mode. Does anyone know how? (I'm not asking if it's possible, because I know that if it's not someone will find a way to make it possible)

[Nob]

It's no longer possible to quickslot counterspell.

There used to be an exploit involving it, which bioware in their infinite wisdom thought they could remedy simply by removing the ability to quickslot it...go figure.

[uncast]

While we're talking about counterspelling...

I've found that it's possible to counterspell without fail (for arcane casters of course) while wearing platemail and equipped with a tower shield (95% arcane failure). Is this because counterspelling don't have somatic components? I always imagined counterspelling as monitoring the spellcaster and then uttering a few words to distrupt the spell. I never tried while being silenced though. But if that's possible, then the situation would be like:

Mage 1 : *casts spell*
Mage 2 : *blinks*
Mage 1 : *spell fizzles* Hey what the-?!

Also, while in counterspell mode, your character can engage in melee (doesn't work with ranged though). Though your character can only attack when the opposing mage doesn't cast anything, but it's pretty convenient. You don't have to constantly go through the radial to go into counterspell while switching from melee to counterspell and vice versa.

Are any of these a bug/exploit/something? I haven't tried any of these on Avlis yet though. Oh yeah, can someone explain to me how does the DC for counterspelling work? Thanks in advance

[ave]

Idiotic question of the day:

How can a mage counterspell. And i mean what button should i press to do it? How this thing happens mechanicaly ? Through the radial? Can one quickslot the counterspell somehow? And finally , can a mage counterspell using one counterspell the spells of several other hostile mages present with 1 counterspell or he needs as many as the other mages? All this time I haven't figured out all that

Hover over the person you want to counter. Bring up the radial menu, "Cast Spell" >> "Spell Special Abilities" >> "Counterspell". You will then counter any spell that they cast that you also have memorised as long as you itentify it (there are also some that can work against other spells as well).

Isn't there any generic spell that works for every other spell? Could dispell be that generic "one spell for all the jobs " in counterspelling?

[Arandil]

The lack of ability to quickslot counterspelling is probably why you don't see it that much anymore.

[Dirk Cutlass]

The lack of ability to quickslot counterspelling is probably why you don't see it that much anymore.

Lazy arses!

There is no DC for counterspelling as far as I know, well apart from a spellcraft check (which is just a regular spellcraft check to see if you recognise the spell). If you pass the spellcraft check and have a suitable counter "memorized" (or known in the case of sorcerers) then the spell is countered, no other saves or dice are rolled.

Dispell magics (i.e. lesser dispell, dispell, greater dispell, and mordenk's disjunction) are universal counters. But can only counter up to that level, i.e. Dispell is lvl 3 spell and so can only counter lvl 3's and lower.

All spells can be countered by themselves, and the universal counters. Some spells have special counters, e.g. haste counters slow, etc.

All this is right out of the Ashen Order Training manual

[Arandil]

Maybe in CvM it would work, but in CvC, unless you have 2 mage vs 1, it's tough to get it going before the other mage has hit the timestop quickslot etc, and first spell to fire off usually wins..

[Serineth Swiftpaw]

Idiotic question of the day:

How can a mage counterspell. And i mean what button should i press to do it? How this thing happens mechanicaly ? Through the radial? Can one quickslot the counterspell somehow? And finally , can a mage counterspell using one counterspell the spells of several other hostile mages present with 1 counterspell or he needs as many as the other mages? All this time I haven't figured out all that

Hover over the person you want to counter. Bring up the radial menu, "Cast Spell" >> "Spell Special Abilities" >> "Counterspell". You will then counter any spell that they cast that you also have memorised as long as you itentify it (there are also some that can work against other spells as well).

Isn't there any generic spell that works for every other spell? Could dispell be that generic "one spell for all the jobs " in counterspelling?

Yeah... Greater Dispelling and Mordekieniens seems to be able to counter virtually anything.

[Dirk Cutlass]

Idiotic question of the day:

How can a mage counterspell. And i mean what button should i press to do it? How this thing happens mechanicaly ? Through the radial? Can one quickslot the counterspell somehow? And finally , can a mage counterspell using one counterspell the spells of several other hostile mages present with 1 counterspell or he needs as many as the other mages? All this time I haven't figured out all that

Hover over the person you want to counter. Bring up the radial menu, "Cast Spell" >> "Spell Special Abilities" >> "Counterspell". You will then counter any spell that they cast that you also have memorised as long as you itentify it (there are also some that can work against other spells as well).

Isn't there any generic spell that works for every other spell? Could dispell be that generic "one spell for all the jobs " in counterspelling?

Yeah... Greater Dispelling and Mordekieniens seems to be able to counter virtually anything.

I already answered that one above ...

Dispell magics (i.e. lesser dispell, dispell, greater dispell, and mordenk's disjunction) are universal counters. But can only counter up to that level, i.e. Dispell is lvl 3 spell and so can only counter lvl 3's and lower.

MK is level 9 and so can counter anything (although you'd be real pissed off it you'd used it to counter a Coulor Spray ) Greater Dispell is what lvl 6? So it can counter anything upto and including lvl 6.

[mortzestus]

Yeah... Greater Dispelling and Mordekieniens seems to be able to counter virtually anything.

Not really. I was testing counterspelling with Aerill yesterday and apparently greater dispelling works as a level 5 spell counter-wise (even though its innate level is 6). The whole system is a bit screwy and what we found out is that the innate level mentioned in the description of a spell is the effective level considered for counterspelling purposes. A few examples:

Animate Dead (innate 3; clr 3, wiz/sor 5): countered by Dispel Magic.
Chain Lightning (innate 6; wiz/sor 6, air 6): countered by Mordenkainen's Disjunction.
Greater Spell Breach (innate 6;wiz/sor 6): countered by Mordenkainen's Disjunction.

And two weird exceptions:

Legend Lore (innate 6; brd 4, wiz/sor 6, knowledge 6): countered by Greater Dispelling.
Dirge (innate 6; brd 6): countered by Greater Dispelling.

These two spells were the only spells with an innate level of 6 that could be countered with a greater dispelling (we didn't test all of them so there might be a few more).

In our testing we used wizard vs. wizard and bard vs. wizard. We didn't touch clerics, though.

[bolo]

I agree it's really cool to see two mages going at it, countering each other.
One of my alts was in Ferrell a couple weeks back, and Sand and an apprentice ( I think) were practicing counter- spelling.

A mage duel is much more exciting to watch than a fighter duel.