Damage reduction

Isengrim · Post by **Isengrim** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:48 pm

Is damage reduction cumulative for different items? I have robes of adventurer (/5 general dmg reduction) and belt of Ki Power (/-5 slashing dmg reduction). Would that mean that when I have those two items worn I'd be able to absorb 10 dmg done by slashing foes(given of course they don't have magical weapons etc.)? Or is it non-cumulative and I may sell my belt to the nearest merchant?

Arandil · Post by **Arandil** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:48 pm

I stand corrected - apologies.

Dirk Cutlass · Post by **Dirk Cutlass** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:51 pm

This one keeps cropping up. Here's a good explaination...

MorphlingROR wrote:There are several types of damage resistance.

1. Damage Reduction. Comes from spells like Stoneskin, Premonition, etc. or in form of item property like Soak 5/+1, Soak 10/+3, etc. +1 or +3 in this case means the requirement in weapon property to ignore this damage reduction. Stoneskin for example gives damage reduction 10/+5, so +5 weapon will ignore Stoneskin. Elemental protection spells are in the same category.

2. Damage Resistance on items (Swordman's Belt for example) in form of a property similar to Slashing Resist 5/-, Fire Resist 10/-, etc.

3. Damage Resistance from feats. As far as I know feats from barbarians, dwarven defenders, epic damage reduction do stack with each other.

Now to examples:

Damage Reduction (1) from Stoneskin, Greater Stoneskin and Premonition will NOT stack. They will not stack with items that give Soak properties either. The best one will take effect.

Damage Reduction (1) + Damage Resistance (2) WILL stack. Not only that, but 2nd type will absorb damage first, which is cool as it will make your Stoneskins last longer. So with Stoneskin and Swordsman's Belt you will absorb 15 damage when hit with a sword or axe, unless you are hit with a +5 weapon or better in which case you will absorb only 5 damage.

Two items that give the same type of Damage Resistance (2) will NOT stack. So if you have an item with Slashing Resist 5/- and an item with Slashing Resist 20/- you will absorb 20 damage, NOT 25.

Now I haven't tested the damage reduction feats myself, but it's 100% that they will stack with Damage Reduction (1) and I am almost completely sure that they will stack with Damage Resistance (2) on items.

Fredegar · Post by **Fredegar** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:55 pm

They stack together (I have them)

Keep in mind that the adventurer's robe will only absorb damage dealt by non magical wielding creatures so later on it loses it's fluff.

Dirk Cutlass · Post by **Dirk Cutlass** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:04 pm

Fredegar wrote:They stack together (I have them)

Keep in mind that the adventurer's robe will only absorb damage dealt by non magical wielding creatures so later on it loses it's fluff.

Yes. Its all in the terminology...

The Robes are Damage Reduction 5/+1 (or 5 soak +1 I think it is also written as)

The belt is Damage Resistance 5/-

Damage Reduction will stack with Damage Resistance.

Check your combat log, you will see both types there

Khaelindra · Post by **Khaelindra** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:25 pm

I love to read my own stuff...

In general, any two effects that have an identical description do not stack, instead having the highest take effect and the lowest being redundant.

You have 5 types of "defensive effects" against physical damage, all of which use the best effect within their category which is applicable for the attacking effect:

1) physical damage resistance, f.i. Brawler's Belt (5/- damage resistance to bludgeoning)
2) physical damage reduction, f.i. Stoneskin spell (10/+5 vs. all physical) or monk's resistance (20/+1 vs. all physical)
3) physical damage soak, f.i. Adventurer Robe (+1 soak 5 damage, effectively 5/+1 damage soak)
4) elemental damage resistance, f.i. Cloak of Fire Resistance (15/- resistance to fire)
5) elemental damage reduction, f.i. Protection from Elements spell (30/- resistance to all elements)

Of course within the elemental resistance group there are five subgroups, one for each element, so 20/- fire resist and 20/- cold resist "stack" and both work against the same hellball coming your way.

Damage Resistance and Soak come before Damage Reduction, which means that damage resistance will make your damage reduction effects (that are often temporary spelleffects that wear down after a set amount of damage has been reduced, only exception being the inate reduction of monks and other special creatures) last longer.

In your example, 20/+1 is group 2, 15/- cold resist is group 4 (cold) and 5/- cold resist is group 4 (cold), so 5/- cold is superseded by the 15/- cold resist.

As a final note: although the different effects of damage reduction do not stack, they DO work in sequence because they have durations: if you have both a Stoneskin (10/+5 reduction) and a Premonition (30/+5 reduction) active, initially only the premonition works. However, unless the duration of the Stoneskin has lapsed, it will still be active when the Premonition has absorbed it's maximum amount of damage and it will kick into action the first attack after the Premonition has stopped working. The same goes for spells like Protection from Elements and Resist Elements.

Hope this helps!

In this case, the robes are soak (type 3) , the belt is resistance (type 1), so they stack.

If you would now quaff a Potion of Stoneskin (reduction, type 2), and received a blow of 24 slashing non-magical slashing damage, you'd see (paraphrased):

Damage Resistance reduces damage by 5,
Damage Resistance (soak) reduces damage by 5,
Damage Reduction reduces damage by 10 (60 points remaning),
You get hit for 4 points of physical damage.

Mickey.

WrathOG777 · Post by **WrathOG777** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:26 pm

damage immunity also stacks.

20% peircing immunity for example will also take 20% of the damage away. I believe immunity is done first but have not confirmed this.

Isengrim · Post by **Isengrim** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:28 pm

Thanks everyone.

I.

Isengrim · Post by **Isengrim** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:32 pm

Fredegar wrote: Keep in mind that the adventurer's robe will only absorb damage dealt by non magical wielding creatures so later on it loses it's fluff.

Pah, since I crafted the view of two sets of those with now-disabled Bioware crafting on Rockhome... there will be long time before I change them for something else.

Godron · Post by **Godron** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:56 pm

I checked this a few days ago and it appears that soak and reduction no longer stacks as per Khaelindra's post. I know it used to though.

However, I would like to see anyone with a master adv. robe try this on Avlis, as I could only try it on a different module.

engelhar · Post by **engelhar** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:00 pm

I think there is one mistake above, if you have adventures robes and stoneskin active, they will not both absorb damage. In your example, stoneskin would absorb 10 and the belt would absorb five. The robes are not taken into consideration cause stoneskin is more powerful.

Also in my experience with spells like pro elements, the spell is used up before the damage resistance, so if you are hit with fireballs and you have a amulet of fire resistance, first thing to absorb damage is the spell, then the amulet.

Khaelindra · Post by **Khaelindra** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:16 pm

engelhar wrote:I think there is one mistake above, if you have adventures robes and stoneskin active, they will not both absorb damage. In your example, stoneskin would absorb 10 and the belt would absorb five. The robes are not taken into consideration cause stoneskin is more powerful.

This is a change for the 'worse' in 1.64 apparently...i tried it with my Adventurer Robe and indeed soak has changed to damage reduction...

engelhar · Post by **engelhar** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:28 pm

I believe this has always been true, or at least for the set of master adventurer's robes I have been using for hte last year.

Dirk Cutlass · Post by **Dirk Cutlass** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:10 pm

engelhar wrote:I believe this has always been true, or at least for the set of master adventurer's robes I have been using for hte last year.

I must admit I thought that was the case too. I thought "soak" was simply another way of saying Damage Reduction, i.e. "5 soak +1" was just another way of saying "5/+1". And as they are both damage Reduction they don't stack!

Mickey, are you 100% they used to stack?

Beary666 · Post by **Beary666** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:13 pm

Yeah my Master Adventurer's Robes never stacked with Stoneskin. Greater stone skin might work but I don't play a mage so I am not exactly sure.

Khaelindra · Post by **Khaelindra** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:23 pm

Dirk Cutlass wrote:
engelhar wrote:I believe this has always been true, or at least for the set of master adventurer's robes I have been using for hte last year.
I must admit I thought that was the case too. I thought "soak" was simply another way of saying Damage Reduction, i.e. "5 soak +1" was just another way of saying "5/+1". And as they are both damage Reduction they don't stack!

Mickey, are you 100% they used to stack?

Not any more...

Anyway, they clearly don't stack now, with damage reductions spells being used before the soak starts, so i threw my damage reduction spells out of the window...

Isengrim · Post by **Isengrim** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:37 am

Heh, so basically I may also throw out the belt, isn't it?

kombinat · Post by **kombinat** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:42 am

Isengrim wrote:Heh, so basically I may also throw out the belt, isn't it?

No, you've read the description of your belt incorrectly. The belt is Damage Resistance, which is different to Damage Reduction. The two stack, as described above.

However, Adventurer's Robes are pierced by anything with +1 or higher weaponry. Very handy at low levels when you fight kobolds, rats, beetles, spiders.. but very quickly you'll find that the majority of creatures seem to have magical weaponry. A surprising number have +5 weaponry.. ouch.

Isengrim · Post by **Isengrim** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:48 am

Um, ok, thanks again.
Given that I don't have much else to wear, I'll stay with these robes until I am able to find the greater ones...

Khaelindra · Post by **Khaelindra** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:01 am

Isengrim wrote:Um, ok, thanks again.
Given that I don't have much else to wear, I'll stay with these robes until I am able to find the greater ones...

Already found them for you...Mel sells them for the bargain price of 1.300.000 gold!

Beary666 · Post by **Beary666** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:52 am

1.3 million!!!!!

*bows down to Green Raven for the baragin price he got*

Isengrim · Post by **Isengrim** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:59 am

Khaelindra wrote:
Isengrim wrote:Um, ok, thanks again.
Given that I don't have much else to wear, I'll stay with these robes until I am able to find the greater ones...
Already found them for you...Mel sells them for the bargain price of 1.300.000 gold!

Great, then I just have to multiply my savings ten times. Piece of cake.

*runs off to collecting springerheralds and mumbles "One run for about 50 pieces, 1.000.000/50 is 200.000... well, I should be able to do it quite soon!"*:D

KenLie · Post by **KenLie** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:20 pm

I have pure barbarian, now which of all those DR's stack with his barb DR's and Epic DR's?

kombinat · Post by **kombinat** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:21 pm

Barbarian DR is Damage Reduction

WrathOG777 · Post by **WrathOG777** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:57 pm

KenLie wrote:I have pure barbarian, now which of all those DR's stack with his barb DR's and Epic DR's?

in my testing... they all do.

Feat, 5/+1, %immunity, and 5/- stack. no two of the same stack.