Yet another Pale Master question

[modigliani]

And I haven't even taken the class yet (but it's been unlocked and will be coming very soon to a server near you).

1. Can anybody summarize the benefits you reap from going past PM 10? The ones I know of are more boneskin, more paralzye and death attacks, higher DC on said attacks, more hit points. It will be IC for me to split between PM and my primary class, so no matter what I plan to go past it. But I'm just wondering. As for the summons:

2. Can anyone shed light on what summons are available to a PM, from lowly beginnings to the epic peak (lvl 30)? I have looked online for a chart of some sort, but have had absolutely no luck.

3. Would someone please kill me if I ask another Pale Master question this week?

Cheers

[Tangleroot]

The 30th level summon is an ass-whooping lesser demi-lich. Not sure if there are others worth noting.

[Dralix]

There's a thread or two on the Bioware forums that list all the summons. I've been trying to search them for the last 20 minutes.

[modigliani]

There's a thread or two on the Bioware forums that list all the summons. I've been trying to search them for the last 20 minutes.

Man, will you ever be my hero if you can find it, D. I have searched endlessly. Hell, I've even jumped through the screen and run around in virtuo.

[szabot]

Summon Undead progression:
Level Creature
4,5 ghoul
6 shadow
7 ghast
8 wight
9 wraith

Summon Greater Undead progression:
Level Creature
9 mummy warrior
10 spectre
12 vampire rogue
14 greater bodak
16 ghoul king
18 vampire mage
20 skeleton blackguard
22 lich
24 lich lord
26 alhoon
28 elder alhoon
30 DEMI LICH

[modigliani]

Summon Undead progression:
Level Creature
4,5 ghoul
6 shadow
7 ghast
8 wight
9 wraith

Summon Greater Undead progression:
Level Creature
9 mummy warrior
10 spectre
12 vampire rogue
14 greater bodak
16 ghoul king
18 vampire mage
20 skeleton blackguard
22 lich
24 lich lord
26 alhoon
28 elder alhoon
30 DEMI LICH

That is SO craptacular! Thanks so much, friend. I take it the Demi Lich is considerably more badass than everything else? (Haven't had the pleasure of meeting one. Yet. )

By the way, can the undead summons be turned by a cleric?

Cheers

[szabot]

Happy to help.

I guess I could have also added this:

Animate Dead progression:
Level Creature
2 tyrantfog zombie
6 skeleton warrior
10 skeleton chieftain

Also, animate dead is 1x/day; summon undead 2x/day; summon greater undead 1x/day.

What would be REALLY amazing: could someone post stats and whatnot on the creatures that the Pale Master can summon?

For example, the ghoul has knockdown and power attack, can cause disease when hits (DC 18 I think), and something else (hit creatures make a will save v. DC 12 - don't think I've seen a failed save yet, so don't know what it does). I didn't know any of those things about it until I saw it in action.

[Dralix]

The general consensus on the Bioware forums is that the summons suck, for whatever that's worth.

[Midknight]

Stats for the Demi-lich... counts as a level 21 Wizard... http://nwn.bioware.com/underdark/creature_demilich.html

Bioware says:

I think we can all agree that no matter how powerful you are, how many magic items you have that can shoot death rays at your enemies, how many sheets of magically enhanced steel you wear, and how huge your holy sword is, when you see a floating skull with gems in its eyes, you know you're going to have to collect your spleen in tiny evidence bags at the end of the battle.

[Dralix]

The lvl 30 PM summon is a LESSER demilich

[Midknight]

Ah, my bad. Still, expect some spleen collecting.

[mortzestus]

Pale master summons really do suck. It's also worth noting that the DC of the undead graft attacks stays the same all the way up to level 30 (17 for deathless master touch, feh).

The only real reason to become an epic pale master is to get an AC ridiculously high and perhaps to get epic bonus feats. And also, a pale master qualifies for epic spells at level 15, which is specially interesting for bards.

[modigliani]

Pale master summons really do suck. It's also worth noting that the DC of the undead graft attacks stays the same all the way up to level 30 (17 for deathless master touch, feh).

The only real reason to become an epic pale master is to get an AC ridiculously high and perhaps to get epic bonus feats. And also, a pale master qualifies for epic spells at level 15, which is specially interesting for bards.

Is this so? I thought you had to be able to cast 9th level spells. Even with the extra PM spell slots, a bard can't ever cast those, right? I think I'm missing something.... Unless it's what level spells you could cast were they available.

[mortzestus]

In NWN you don't need to be able to cast level 9 spells in order to qualify for epic spells. According to the manual you need to be epic in a spellcasting class and have a certain number of ranks in the spellcraft skill. However, the manual is wrong and the requirements for an arcane caster are to be an epic sorcerer or wizard or a pale master of level 15. A bard can never qualify for epic spells in NWN, a bard/pale master can qualify once he gets 15 pale master levels, no matter how many bard levels he has (could have as few as three). This is also true for wizards and sorcerers: for instance, a wizard 3/fighter 7/pale master 15 can cast just up to level 6 spells... yet his 15 pale master levels allow him to qualify for epic spells. Worst implementation ever but that's how it works in NWN.

This bard/pale master can never meet the requirements for the automatic metamagic feats, though. The ability to cast level 9 spells is required for those.

[spokeydonkey]

The only real reason to become an epic pale master is to get an AC ridiculously high and perhaps to get epic bonus feats. And also, a pale master qualifies for epic spells at level 15, which is specially interesting for bards.

And I thought the only reason was the sexah bone arm!

[Aloro]

3. Would someone please kill me if I ask another Pale Master question this week?

Sure!

By the way, can the undead summons be turned by a cleric?

Is this so? I thought you had to be able to cast 9th level spells. Even with the extra PM spell slots, a bard can't ever cast those, right?

Since you've already asked three (3) more questions, why don't I kill you three times, just to keep things fair?

- Aloro

[modigliani]

In NWN you don't need to be able to cast level 9 spells in order to qualify for epic spells. According to the manual you need to be epic in a spellcasting class and have a certain number of ranks in the spellcraft skill. However, the manual is wrong and the requirements for an arcane caster are to be an epic sorcerer or wizard or a pale master of level 15. A bard can never qualify for epic spells in NWN, a bard/pale master can qualify once he gets 15 pale master levels, no matter how many bard levels he has (could have as few as three). This is also true for wizards and sorcerers: for instance, a wizard 3/fighter 7/pale master 15 can cast just up to level 6 spells... yet his 15 pale master levels allow him to qualify for epic spells. Worst implementation ever but that's how it works in NWN.

This bard/pale master can never meet the requirements for the automatic metamagic feats, though. The ability to cast level 9 spells is required for those.

That is so groovy I think I might cry. *sniff*

*to Aloro* Yes, yes. Go ahead. *cranes head forward to expose neck*

You and yer bleedin' technicalities....

[szabot]

Just thought I'd share a story of how PM summons aren't very good. I summoned one ghoul, buffed it, then watched it get killed by one dwarf merc, which then also tore through my second ghoul and my animated corpse. One dwarf mercenary. Three PM summons. Hmm. I know dwarf mercs are tough, but come on.

[szabot]

Thought about putting this in a rant, but thought this would be more constructive...possibly.

Another thing that sucks about pale master summons: as little as a lesser dispel on the PM unsummons them.

Does anyone have the answer to whether or not PM summons can be turned by the turn undead ability? I'm guessing probably yes...

[Enverex]

If they are undead, yes. Turn undead works on any undead.

[Midknight]

Really, the only nasty thing about undead summons vs. regular summons are their special undead immunities - cold, critical hits, mind magic, etc.

[mortzestus]

Another thing that sucks about pale master summons: as little as a lesser dispel on the PM unsummons them.

Does anyone have the answer to whether or not PM summons can be turned by the turn undead ability? I'm guessing probably yes...

Take into account that until Avlis goes 1.64 the dispels will be bugged. The new patch is supposed to fix them but right now all dispels aren't capped by neither the type of dispel nor the level of the caster, so a high level mage can dispel as much stuff with a lesser dispel as with a Mordenkainen's disjunction (leaving aside the breaching effect of the disjunction, of course).

All undead summoned/animated by a pale master are supposed to have +4 turn resistance. Don't know if this is implemented in NWN but i'm fairly sure that it isn't.

[Grizpin]

All undead summoned/animated by a pale master are supposed to have +4 turn resistance. Don't know if this is implemented in NWN but i'm fairly sure that it isn't.

Will this turn resistance be modified in Avlis if it is not implemented already?

[szabot]

Interested in an answer to the previous question.

[dougnoel]

There is no summoning script for familiars, animal companions and the like (Shadow Dancer, Blackguard, Pale Master). To change what happens with summons we have to replace the summons with custom versions and then modify the OnSpawn scripts. So, not any time soon...