Cleric multiclass

Nightface · Post by **Nightface** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:37 am

Aloro wrote:My cleric multiclassed as a cleric/cleric. I was going to make him a cleric/cleric/cleric, but needed to leave a class slot open for demigod. So now he's a cleric/cleric/demigod. It's working out ok so far, though the 100% experience penalty is a bitch. Progression's really slowed down there.

Pfft, that's so a powergamer combo. I'm disappointed in you, Aloro, really.

Aloro wrote:I actually DID consider making Cha'reth a cleric/druid, but decided to focus on his role as a spiritual advisor and healer. Joking aside, he'd still be a straight cleric if he were alive.

Good to know I'm not the only one who believes in keeping it pure.

Aloro wrote:What do you get for being an epic cleric? Mechanically, two things really:

* spell durations are defined as "however long is convenient for you"

AMEN, Brother!

Aloro wrote:* you can turn undead pretty freaking well - and other things too, with the right domain abilities (e.g. Animal Domain -> turn vermin)

Heh, I took Knowledge and Earth for RP purposes (what else would a blacksmith want to concentrate on?), and always forget I can turn elementals. Comes in handy when I remember, though.

Aloro wrote:Do these two things offset the mechanical benefits from taking a second class? Eh, maybe not. I dunno. Doesn't matter to me though - clerics are cool.

Mechanically? I'd say not, which is why I love Avlis. The way I built Tanmar, in terms of feats and skills, is pretty screwy, mechanically speaking, but it just makes him better to play on Avlis. It helps add depth to his role as a blacksmith who moonlights as a cleric, and generally finds adventuring to be a folly of the young.

Thank god he's capable enough to handle almost any mine in Avlis, though!

KunojiLym · Post by **KunojiLym** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 9:54 am

The engine will let you, though will require DM intervention until we fix the druid alignment problems. I'll help ya out.

Heh, thank ye ^_^

I actually DID consider making Cha'reth a cleric/druid, but decided to focus on his role as a spiritual advisor and healer. Joking aside, he'd still be a straight cleric if he were alive.

I'm still vacillinating... Resthal's been pretty much focused on healing so far, but her experience as a herbalist and an alchemist is leading her to appreciate nature more (than she already has). My take on druids is that they are little different from clerics, other than the pro-nature bias. So, it's a short step for her.

Besides, those potential extra slots for healing make me drool... ;p[/quote]

Gilkin · Post by **Gilkin** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:06 am

I'm a level 23 Cleric. Don't like multiclassing. It's always something like "Uhm..I'm a battle cleric so that's why I just happened to take 4 fighter levels (16 Cleric 4 Fighter)" or "I'm sneaky or whatever so that's why I took Rogue...I didn't take it for the sneak attacks..no sir" etc etc. 90% of multiclassing is because you want feats/skills and so on.

Stay clean, stay pure

Manuel the White · Post by **Manuel the White** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:13 am

I don't think there's anything wrong with multiclassing. Is it okay if a Fighter takes 5 levels of Bard? Then why not a Cleric taking 5 levels of Fighter? Sure, there are some formulas out there. But I choose to ignore those because they limit my enjoyment.

Drysh · Post by **Drysh** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 7:10 am

Manuel,
If your idea is a cleric/ranger, you should know that the animal companion of the ranger only improves when you take levels as a ranger (I played the single player game with an elven ranger/druid: you get two animal companions of half your level). Since the ranger only receives the animal compnion on the 6th level it is not that weak.
Another thing is that you cannot take the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting with the dual wield, you will receive it for free on the 9th level, but if you don't take 9 levels of ranger you will need to take Ambidexterity and Two-Wepon Fighting to qualify for the Improved Two-Weapon.

But.. Forgetting all this metagaming... It would be a lot of fun with a.. let's say cleric 20th/ranger 6th... And you summon a 6 HD wolf and says it's your pet (and treat it like a dog).

Jorio Alerian · Post by **Jorio Alerian** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 11:48 am

Manuel the White wrote:I don't think there's anything wrong with multiclassing. Is it okay if a Fighter takes 5 levels of Bard? Then why not a Cleric taking 5 levels of Fighter? Sure, there are some formulas out there. But I choose to ignore those because they limit my enjoyment.

Agree. I have a few levels of fighter, and would consider taking more. I would even consider a few levels in another class too. The point is that as long as it fits in the development of who your character is, then I say by all means go for it.

It is the folks who follow the NWN Forums on "best cleric builds" with no thought into the character's personality, or traits that makes it all seem disingenuous.

Drysh · Post by **Drysh** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 2:45 pm

I can understand what Gilkin is saying...
There are a lot of ways to take some levels in a class and make it looks like it's for an IC reason (an RP that) just because the player wants a feat, a skill or something.
But, IMHO, if the player RPs it, it's ok. After all, I've never seen a merchant that is a 0-lvl human (does this still exist in the 3rd ed?) and a lot of merchants would be just that.
Good RPers wants power too, and if they bend their RP to get there, as long as they are trying to RP it, even beter. I think this may be an excelent oportunity for the player to learn how to RP something new.
If (when) the psionicist class is implemented in Avlis, my Monk/Mage may take some levels in it. Why? The OOC reason is that I never played a psionicist and it may improve my RP to play one. I would not start with a full psionicist because I don't know how to RP it. But a monk/mage that is trying to develop his mental powers.. well.. I'm playing one (he wants knowledge now, but it could be psionic powers). If this is an IC reason or excuse, I don't know. If it will improve my RP, sure. So I'll take it if it's possible.
My personal rule is: If it will improve RP, do it. If it will make RP worst, stay away. If it will not change RP quality, but it's still funny, do it, that's nothing wrong with that. Whatever it is (dual, alignment change, adventuring, feat, skill, anything).

Kaenon · Post by **Kaenon** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:22 am

Fuzz wrote: Personally, I'm more curious as to why there aren't more Cleric/Holy Warrior characters... in a mild hijack, (start another thread if you're as curious as I am) why is there no interest in going the Holy Warrior route, in general? Barring the characters taht progressed really far prior to teh advent of the Holy Warriors, and thus are nowhere near the requirements for them, what other reasons are there? Is it because hte Holy Warrior PrCs aren't as powerful as multiclassing with some other PrC, in terms of spells and such, or what? Just curious, since I know of literally 3 characters who actually have levels in one of the Holy Warrior PrCs, and know of maybe 2 more that are actually trying to get their PrC slot activated through a DM quest.

Correct me if im wrong, but i believe this is due to most of the holy warrior quests not being created yet. when they're up im sure will see more holy warriors.

i believe, that I and many other clerics will be taking these classes to better define that we are warriors of our chosen god.

shoshin42 · Post by **shoshin42** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:10 pm

My character, Bart, grew up dreaming of being a Champion. Until he took his pilgrimage to Elysia and met them, that is. He quickly became disillusioned with them and started travelling.

As a fighter, he is currently hoping to start training as a Cleric of Dagath to become like a holy warrior for a god that doesn't have a holy warrior PRC. I pla to take 1 cleric level for every 2 fighter levels. Yes, I'll take an XP penalty, but I'm more interested in the character concept and growth than XP.

Just my thoughts on multi-classing clerics and holy warrior PRCs.

Sirion Amendir · Post by **Sirion Amendir** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:17 pm

So, from an RP point of view, why does your character nessicerly have to take exactly 2 fighter for every 1 cleric?
Sounds like a stupid choice, i mean. What you just did was decide what levels to take before you develop your character. So in effect you have a build? Just like a player that does 4 fighter levels and 16 cleric, only yours is crap in comparrison.
That makes it sound like your fishing for "dm"-love and love in general.
"hey look at me, i make crappy builds that has nothing to do with my character....for no obvious reason"

Wyrmwing · Post by **Wyrmwing** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:51 pm

If you read well, it says 'plan to take', not 'will take, no matter what'. Also, not mentioning why the character wants to become a cleric, does not meant there is no reason to do so.

And why would not min-maxing be fishing for dm-love?

Manuel the White · Post by **Manuel the White** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 2:12 pm

On the Holy Warriors, be very mindful as to how you build your character ahead of time. With these classes you have to plan. The Requirements will force you a certian direction. Otherwise you'll be SOL. For example, the Avenger Prestige Class. It requires level in Fighter. It requires levels in either Druid or Ranger. Only then can you take levels in Avenger. So, if you've taken *any other class* you can never be an Avenger.

GreyLynx · Post by **GreyLynx** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 2:21 pm

Manuel, I think I'm missing why a level of fighter is required. Can't a ranger fulfull all the requirements?

shoshin42 · Post by **shoshin42** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 2:30 pm

I was debating even responding to this, since you you seem to be implying that my RP sucks because I have a "build," but my non-RP powergaming sucks because it's a crappy build.

My character is developing and changing. He will probably change again. That's the fun of RPing and letting the story take you where it will.

Yes, it's a "plan." I'm sure it will change. You've never had a character concept and wondered how it would work within the rules of the game? Hm, I'm a fighter and want to also reflect more than a casual devotion to my god. How will this fit within the rules of the game?

Crappy build? So what?

Am I locked into this progression? Certainly not. When it's time to level up, I look back at my actions and see if I've been doing more fighting or more venerating and choose which to level up based on that.

It may change. Heck, Bart may discover he loves the cleric aspect and forsake the fighter levels completely. I don't know. I have to see how it plays out.

You're making a big assumption that you know what my character is about . You know nothing about Bart, so of course it is not obvious to you. It has everything to do with his current dreams and aspirations.

I'll stop now before I make some snide comment and turn this into a mudslinging fest instead of a discussion of multiclassing charcters.

Manuel the White · Post by **Manuel the White** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 2:34 pm

Hey, you're right! Thanks for correcting me on this Grey. At one time there was talk of requiring Weapon Specialization: Longbow on the Avenger prestige class but it must have been dropped. Cool.

Aloro · Post by **Aloro** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:01 pm

Manuel the White wrote:Hey, you're right! Thanks for correcting me on this Grey. At one time there was talk of requiring Weapon Specialization: Longbow on the Avenger prestige class but it must have been dropped. Cool.

Yeah, that was changed to Weapon Focus. Thankfully. I complained vociferously about requiring both fighter and ranger/druid levels for one bleeding PrC.

- Aloro

Melakin Skywieder · Post by **Melakin Skywieder** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:00 pm

Manuel the White wrote:Hey, you're right! Thanks for correcting me on this Grey. At one time there was talk of requiring Weapon Specialization: Longbow on the Avenger prestige class but it must have been dropped. Cool.

Planning on being an Avenger Manuel?

I'm not sure you'll get approval

Vanor · Post by **Vanor** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:00 pm

Gilkin wrote:90% of multiclassing is because you want feats/skills and so on.

98% of all statics posted to a msg board are made up on the spot.

On to the serrious part of this post.

Taking a class because you gain some sort of ablity is not inherently bad, it's only bad when that's the Only reason you do it. It's worse when you take a class that clearly doesn't fit your character, just to get an ablity.

Someone like say Jorio, taking levels of Druid for example would be IMO bad, because he's never hugged a tree in his life that I know of. My PC taking levels in Wizard, when he's never shown any real interest in the arcane before would also be bad.

However Jorio taking levels in fighter, no matter how many levels they are... Is completely fitting to his character. He is a Cleric of the Battle Lord, and as such an increased amount of marital training makes a ton of sense. Even if he only takes 4 fighter levels, this is still a very IC thing to do. In fact taking 4 levels of fighter makes the most IC sense, as it's a very natural break point in the fighter class.

To those who would say... Is it IC to look at it that way, sense levels are OOC... I say, no levels are not completely OOC things. They're mostly OOC things, but the ablities granted at given levels is completely IC. There is nothing OOC about saying you've learned to master a given weapon, and now you wish to focuse more on your clerical studies.

The same goes for most every other PC out there, all the gods have things about them that point people towards a given multiclass combo.

Dru'El - Cleric/Ranger or Druid
O'Ma - Cleric/Ranger or Druid
Maleki - Cleric/Fighter or Blackguard.
Gorethar - Cleric/Fighter or Paladin
Vorin - Cleric/Bard
Angadar - Cleric/Rogue

The list goes on... All of those gods, and in fact most gods on Avlis have strong IC reasons to allow multiclassing.

Now as far as the idea of if the class was picked because of an ablity granted and then that was RP'ed. Or the class was picked for completely IC reasons, but just happened to grant the PC something cool...

That's a chicken or the egg question, it can't be answered. Other then by the person who did it. However no player should be judging the decisions other other players, or assuming why they did things. You can't read mines so you can not know why they did what they did.

Manuel the White · Post by **Manuel the White** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:04 pm

Melakin Skywieder wrote:
Manuel the White wrote:Hey, you're right! Thanks for correcting me on this Grey. At one time there was talk of requiring Weapon Specialization: Longbow on the Avenger prestige class but it must have been dropped. Cool.
Planning on being an Avenger Manuel?

I'm not sure you'll get approval

Ha! I dunno. Doubtful.

Jorio Alerian · Post by **Jorio Alerian** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:19 pm

Vanor wrote: He is a Cleric of the Battle Lord, and as such an increased amount of marital training makes a ton of sense.

Whooahh... let's not make the easy cross-over into my real life. You been talking to my wife?

Funny thing is... if I tried to play an LG husband of Gorethar in our home, guess who would be finding a new place to live? I'd need more than a few levels of "compassionate husbandry" to make it work.

Gairus · Post by **Gairus** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 11:33 pm

As more evidence that mutliclasses are not always taken for skills...

my mage is RPing his faith to the point that i'm taking the odd cleric level now... and his starting wisdom was 10

gwydion2 · Post by **gwydion2** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:17 am

Barbarian/Rogue/Cleric even though cleric is my highest level it was the third class I took as my character concept was a bit fluid to start with.

Essentially he grew up in the woods as a loner (ranger didnt seem appropriate so I picked barbarian instead) moved to town and continued to scavenge on the urban jungle in much the same way. Still planning a couple more rogue levels as he serves his god in a very covert way much of the time. Also self sufficiency is key to the concept. He can work with others but hates relying on them.