Opinions of Upcoming Bioware Games

sarek88 · Post by **sarek88** » Thu May 13, 2004 10:22 pm

I have heard good things about Jade Empire and, even though I am not one for Xbox games, I may plan to get this one. The graphics are stunning, the theme of ancient chinese mythology is new and original, and I trust Bioware to do some good writing for the story.

Combat seems decent at least. It seems like a cross between a fighting game and a roleplaying game in that respect. Overall, I give it a

B+

Next title is Dragon Age http://www.bioware.com/games/dragon_age/

From the previews, it seems to be a successor to NWN in several ways. It will have multiplayer and Bioware has stated that this game is supposed to develop a good online community. Whether or not that means a toolset is anyone's guess.

The screenshots look pretty damn impressive. The graphics seem to be just as good as those that Everquest 2 or other new games are supposed to have.

Although it sucks that Bioware has drifted away from the Dungeons and Dragons rules and settings, I trust the company enough to still have faith in what they are trying to do.

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/dragon-age/514 ... ?fromint=1

I know most of us are hopeless Avlis addicts, but I still like looking around...

Anyone else have any opinions about these?

Fuzz · Post by **Fuzz** » Thu May 13, 2004 10:39 pm

I hate the DnD rules, so I'm glad they're branching off.

If KotOR2 is anything like KotOR1, I'll be all over that like flies on Nob's armpits. Preliminary E3 footage makes it look just like KotOR1, graphically... but then again, is that really a problem? I don't hink so.

sarek88 · Post by **sarek88** » Fri May 14, 2004 1:29 am

HomeLan wrote:BioWare has been in development of the game for quite some time now but they are also aiming for a lot of content and gameplay in Dragon Age. In addition to the 40-50 hour single player campaign, the game will also contain a separate multiplayer campaign that parallels the single player storyline. And yes, Dragon Age will also have a full set of mod and mission tools when it is released.

SWEEEET...[/b]

TheElvenKing · Post by **TheElvenKing** » Fri May 14, 2004 1:33 am

Fuzz wrote:If KotOR2 is anything like KotOR1, I'll be all over that like flies on Nob's armpits. Preliminary E3 footage makes it look just like KotOR1, graphically... but then again, is that really a problem? I don't hink so.

Did you play KotOR on X-Box or PC Fuzz? I'm ashamed to say it, but a Star Wars junkie like myself has yet to try it out - for the simple reason that I wasn't sure which version to take a look at.

Fifty · Post by **Fifty** » Fri May 14, 2004 7:42 am

Jade Empire looks great, not sure if I wil get it though

Fuzz · Post by **Fuzz** » Fri May 14, 2004 7:49 am

PC, of course.

Why in the world would I ever buy a Huge-Box?

Leaving Hope · Post by **Leaving Hope** » Fri May 14, 2004 10:56 am

TheElvenKing wrote:
Fuzz wrote:If KotOR2 is anything like KotOR1, I'll be all over that like flies on Nob's armpits. Preliminary E3 footage makes it look just like KotOR1, graphically... but then again, is that really a problem? I don't hink so.
Did you play KotOR on X-Box or PC Fuzz? I'm ashamed to say it, but a Star Wars junkie like myself has yet to try it out - for the simple reason that I wasn't sure which version to take a look at.

I owned HotOR on X-Box, and enjoyed the experience immensely. It feels like Star Wars. This is coming from someone who typically prefers to play his games on his PC. Regardless which platform you choose, I think you'll be happy. It was a great game--though very different from NWN--and it should keep you entertained for a while.

The major difference is going to be the control scheme and display; there's really no major differences between the versions. Either you use a controller with your TV, or you use it with your keyboard and mouse in front of your monitor.

I never really cared much about my X-Box being larger than the PS2 or Cube. It fits into the shelf very nicely with the receiver, DVD player, and other home theatre components. I'm able to do things with the X-Box that I can't do with the other systems, such as stream video to my TV from my PC, code my own software, emulate other consoles, and more. After playing Halo in 5.1, there was no going back for me.

Best,
LH

Leaving Hope · Post by **Leaving Hope** » Fri May 14, 2004 11:06 am

Another Dragon Age preview:

http://nwvault.ign.com/index2.shtml#new ... 4520,75703

Lafferty · Post by **Lafferty** » Fri May 14, 2004 12:43 pm

On Dragon Age:

I think it is a good thing Bioware creates its own ruleset and will not rely on IP like DnD or Forgotten Realms or anything else. The reason why this is good is very simple:
There will be a toolset (some kind - nothing certain yet what it will be like) and that means we will be able to build stuff with it and if all goes well stuff like the PWs in CoPaP - Without the hindrance of being a licensee Bioware has a lot of more freedom to give us what they want to. Right now they can only give us what they want to and what they are allowed to.

Finally, i must say that i personally dont think highly of the DnD ruleset. I have seen a LOT of PnP rulesets including some very small, some VERY big ones and some complicated ones and some easy ones and i must say DnD isnt even in my Top 20 list. There are a lot of things i dont like about DnD but i could live with any ruleset if it allows me to play online on worlds like avlis.

What really disturbes me a bit is that they stated there will be transitions... holy shit! why? I hate those darn transitions. Even if there are only about 2 in the whole game (Gothic 2 incl. Addon). I at least want to be able to run into a house and look out of the window without any tricks like transitions and dynamic textures or anything like it.

I also am sceptic about their lips closed about true 3d (including z-axis i mean). From what i can see in the screenshots there is a shot of the bridge with people running under it and a shot from the top of the bridge with some people standing on it while people run under it. If this is the same area it suggests there is true 3d.

Wether Dragon Age will be the next step or if it could even be a huge leap is much too early to tell. From my perspective it all depends on the toolset. If i am unable to do AT LEAST what i am able to now with the NWN-toolset i wont buy/use it.
As i read it the areas will not be built with a tilset based system but with a 3d editor or something similar.
As much work as it sounds like, this has a lot of consequences like the pure size (in MB) of areas can get too big for online gaming (areas get transfered on the fly in nwn, we dont need to download the module). Nevertheless being able to edit the surroundings freestyle is great since you STILL could use the tileset approach to build your areas in the 3d editor from some prefabs. You also could use a library of objects or build one by yourself to quickly assemble areas and interiors.

All in all Dragon Age could be what i hope for. What i hoped Bioware would do as the next step, though it sucks that it seems they won't include a dm client. Imagine Avlis without a dm-client!...

(off topic: why is there no scrollbar in the editform-textarea?)

4x4_Ender · Post by **4x4_Ender** » Fri May 14, 2004 4:23 pm

All in all Dragon Age could be what i hope for. What i hoped Bioware would do as the next step, though it sucks that it seems they won't include a dm client. Imagine Avlis without a dm-client!...

No DM client = garbage. Period.

Leaving Hope · Post by **Leaving Hope** » Fri May 14, 2004 4:30 pm

4x4_Ender wrote:No DM client = garbage. Period.

They may not be able to legally use the term "DM," and are therefore calling it something else.

However, I agree. Dragon Age without DM-esque functionality would make worlds like Avlis impossible. Then again, maybe that's the point.

Lafferty · Post by **Lafferty** » Fri May 14, 2004 4:39 pm

Well it all depends on how scriptable/extensible the whole thing will be. In NWN it always disturbed me that DMs also had some kind of character to log in with? Why that avatarish approach for someone who rarely will walk around as 'The DM'?
All in all it may be that they have some totally different things in the pipe like different access levels to different functions in the game, or even some sort of ecternal control program to DM stuff.
I think i also read somewhere on the bioboards that it could happen to be a separate product, like an addon for Dragon Age.

Well... currently its all speculation

JollyOrc · Post by **JollyOrc** » Fri May 14, 2004 4:46 pm

on hand: yes, the avatar is a bit silly.

on the other hand. It does make navigating and interacting with the environment a tad bit easier. There is the bonus of not having to learn a completely different GUI. (Although the current DM client has enough drawbacks too.)

Vanor · Post by **Vanor** » Fri May 14, 2004 4:48 pm

Lafferty wrote:Well it all depends on how scriptable/extensible the whole thing will be.

No amount of scripting can replace a live DM.

Why that avatarish approach for someone who rarely will walk around as 'The DM'?

We actually spend a great deal of time running around as the DM. In fact I'd say I spend well over 50% of my time on as a DM, not poessessing a NPC.

markschouten · Post by **markschouten** » Fri May 14, 2004 5:17 pm

Dragon Age looks very impressive , i will sure as hell buy it even if it's just for single player. I enjoyed Baldurs Gate 1 and 2 , so i doubt that i won't enjoy this. I do hope that you won't have to use a 3d editting program for creating areas , the reason that nwn has this much mods is because it is easy to make areas.

And about Jade Empire , i would have loved to be able to get it.. but i won't buy an x-box for one game only. Even if it's a bioware game. The game "Fable" for x-box and pc looks more interesting to.

Leaving Hope · Post by **Leaving Hope** » Fri May 14, 2004 5:35 pm

Some lawyer somewhere wrote:Neverwinter Nights, Forgotten Realms, the Forgotten Realms logo, Dungeons & Dragons logo, Dungeon Master, D&D, and the Wizards of the Coast logo are trademarks owned by Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc. and are used by Infogrames Entertainment, S.A. under license.

The legal statement that comes with NWN, which I've abbreviated, makes it clear that the term Dungeon Master is a trademark of Wizards of the Coast. Therefore, because Bioware isn't using D&D in Dragon Age, there's no way they can use that term.

This of course doesn't mean there won't be a DM-like functionalty to Dragon Age, but it definitely means they won't be able to call it that.

Best,
LH

ds77 · Post by **ds77** » Fri May 14, 2004 5:52 pm

Their is always "Game Master"

Fuzz · Post by **Fuzz** » Fri May 14, 2004 6:01 pm

However they said in a press release months ago that their next RPG forays would be more in the vein of KotOR, and less like NWN. The major point being that they probably weren't going to include a DM client. (someone can find this, it should be buried in the forums somewhere) Regardless of what you call it, I'm kind of thinking it'll revolve around multiplayer campaigns, and not live DM style play... most likely won't support PWs once again, either.

sarek88 · Post by **sarek88** » Tue May 18, 2004 12:16 am

the article at the Neverwinter vault stated that a DM client (or whatever you want to call it) is still under consideration.

Personally I think that a DM client is a sure thing. It is probably one of the major things that has kept NWN going this long, long after the graphics and such have been bested by other games. Bioware isn't a company of idiots. They know that economic success comes from pleasing the consumers. And I am sure that everyone wants a DM client.

sarek88 · Post by **sarek88** » Wed May 19, 2004 10:44 pm

Get a load of this...straight from the bioware dragon age FAQ.

Can I get a WOOT WOOT?

Dragon Age will have a Game Master client. More information on the specific features will be made available at a later date.

http://www.bioware.com/games/dragon_age ... ex.html#01

Vanor · Post by **Vanor** » Wed May 19, 2004 11:12 pm

It looks like DA is in many ways NWN2.

Although I wonder if the things we can do with NWN will be able to be done in DA.

I also wonder, if the improvements in DA will make recreating Avlis in it's eng and toolset worthwhile or not.

Lafferty · Post by **Lafferty** » Wed May 19, 2004 11:18 pm

That raises the question how tightly avlis is tied to the DnD ruleset?

If Bioware even makes parts of the ruleset modable we should be able to do pretty much anything. The only thing that might happen is that DA will not only be designed with PWs not in mind but even explicitely unsupporting it; i mean locking out the possibility of creating PWs with DA.

Well... we'll see soon enough.

But already just for the graphics and the z-axis i'd say recreate avlis in DA

Vanor · Post by **Vanor** » Thu May 20, 2004 12:45 am

Lafferty wrote:But already just for the graphics and the z-axis i'd say recreate avlis in DA

Does that mean you're willing to help redo all of the existing Avlis, not to mention all the stuff we're likely to do between now and when DA comes out... In the DA toolset?

When you think about the amount of work that will be... I think you can see it's not a easy decision by any means.

sarek88 · Post by **sarek88** » Thu May 20, 2004 1:18 am

yeah converting a PW like Avlis would be a bitch...

One question though: assuming DA allows scripts, can all the Avlis scripts be sent to DA? that would cut down on the time required by a lot. In my opinion, scripts are the toughest part of the building process.

Lafferty · Post by **Lafferty** » Thu May 20, 2004 1:24 am

Vanor wrote:
Lafferty wrote:But already just for the graphics and the z-axis i'd say recreate avlis in DA
Does that mean you're willing to help redo all of the existing Avlis, not to mention all the stuff we're likely to do between now and when DA comes out... In the DA toolset?

When you think about the amount of work that will be... I think you can see it's not a easy decision by any means.

yes. I'd be willing to help if DA gets to be what i hope for.