Avlis Dieties vs. Non-Avlis Dieties

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:23 pm

I'm trying to get a feel for the different dieties and how they relate. One question that has come up in my searches is how much influence certain non-Avlis dieties have in the world. They are listed on the diety page, so I assumed they were Avlis gods, like Ptah and Corellan, but they are apparently from other worlds who helped the Nine create their races. However, I read that Dru'El granted rights to Corellan for his help in creating the Elves. Can someone give me a bit more insight into how this works? Thanks.

Vanor · Post by **Vanor** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:42 pm

A god is a god is a god... Unless it's a godess.

The fact that a god isn't native to Avlis doesn't really matter. Typically non native gods don't have quite the same following as native ones, but they have as much power as any other god of the same status.

That help?

Fifty · Post by **Fifty** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:49 pm

I have seen this quitea bit recently and it is starting to bother me.

So, not diety, but Deity

choraldances · Post by **choraldances** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:59 pm

If it's on the Avlis Deity list, then it has influence here. If it's not, don't import it.

Just ask Star if you plan to import a god/goddess.

Starslayer_D · Post by **Starslayer_D** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 7:05 pm

*evil grin* I converted, I converted, but please, no more pain....

I once again have to thank the participating DM's for a long, conveluted and great quest to have me see the light.

PerkyElf · Post by **PerkyElf** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 7:05 pm

What happens to copap clerics when they come visiting?

Drakuul · Post by **Drakuul** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 7:07 pm

They get the dripping acid on the skin welcome wagon.

Nob · Post by **Nob** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 7:08 pm

You get that regardless of where you're from though Drak.

Though, I do hear the SoT is dishing out flaming sword enemas' to clean out the bad influences of non-Avlissian deities.

Starslayer_D · Post by **Starslayer_D** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 7:08 pm

Due to the planar closeness of some Copak clerics, they still feel a connection to their gods. A weak one, spells are granted, divine visits and miracles not.

For others, a local deity with an interrest in the cleric and his/her believes may take over granting spells.

Ask Amonien IC for the long version. *grin*

Post by **Orleron** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 8:14 pm

This is THE explanation, so quote it well.

The 9 Greater gods of Avlis have a certain amount of power over the crystal sphere where the solar system is located. One of their abilities is to control what deities from outside the crystal sphere can and can't affect things inside it.

So if Gorethar says, "Hey, Clangeddin's a good guy, I'll let him have power here." , he can do that. However, Moradin would not be able to do squat on Avlis because Gorethar did not allow him in.

There are exceptions to this, as was seen with Mythos. If another plane gets REAL close to the Prime Material Plane on Avlis, the gods in that plane can get limited access, and vice versa. This is why the Mythos gods were able to grant spells on Avlis.

For CoPaP worlds, we will make attempts to limit the spells through scripts. According to 2nd edition Spelljammer rules, you can cast up to 2nd level cleric spells without any contact from your god, if he's from another world. However, if you want to cast something higher than that, your god will need to have power in that sphere, or you will have to use other magic to be able to contact it. The spell "Contact Home Power" was made for that in Spelljammer.

None of this is implemented yet, but we will do it eventually.

Lafferty · Post by **Lafferty** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 8:28 pm

Hmm... a little bit off topic but i think this might help on the technical side.
quoted from http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic ... highlight=

Georg Zoeller wrote: Casting Spells:
Ok, a few technical things for you to toy around. Every single player castable spell has been altered to execute a certain script (use magic device) before running the the actual spellscript. That script can return TRUE or FALSE. If it returns TRUE, the original spellscript does not run. Now this can be exploited in a number of ways to get a pseudo OnPlayerCastSpell event:

- You can change the effect of a spell in a certain area or even for a certain player, time, weather condition or whatever you want.
Example: You can put a check in that script that if the spell that was cast was call lightning and the weather is sunny, you can change the weather to rain before actually running the call lightning script

- You can just disable all spells cast by players in a certain area, module, time, etc. The spell projectiles will still fire, but they won't do anything if you don't want it.
Example: If the player is in the cave of the evil monkeys when casting a spell, you play a spell failure VFX and stop the spellscript

- You can detect if a player cast a spell on an item and react to it (that's the way we do brew potion)
Example: If the player casts the spell dispel magic on the Mighty Amulet of the Cow in his inventory, you summon a cow nearby, destroy the amulet and prevent the original spellscript from running.

And yes, this would also allow you to script material component requirements for certain spells.

EDIT: Forgot to mention... we have to wait for HotU... though there are some scripts that allready allow similar spell hooks....

Tahni · Post by **Tahni** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 8:37 pm

You could argue, with the team's permission of course, that Avlis and all the others "worlds" are on the same planet, just different contients. Therefore the Gods are all on the same Material Plane, but just with differing areas, or contients of influence. It would also explain how the timings of days etc are the same from server to server.
Just a thought

Jordicus · Post by **Jordicus** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 8:43 pm

Tahni wrote:You could argue, with the team's permission of course, that Avlis and all the others "worlds" are on the same planet, just different contients. Therefore the Gods are all on the same Material Plane, but just with differing areas, or contients of influence. It would also explain how the timings of days etc are the same from server to server.
Just a thought

nope... the explanation is posted above by the big guy himself

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:08 pm

Fifty wrote:I have seen this quitea bit recently and it is starting to bother me.

So, not diety, but Deity

I was talking about how overweight the gods are. Couldn't you figure that out?

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:25 pm

Thanks, Orl. That does help. Can we assume that all the deities listed on the web page, aside from the Nine, have been granted some power over Avlis by the Nine?

Post by **Orleron** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:27 pm

Correct

Manuel the White · Post by **Manuel the White** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 4:47 am

2 additional Intermediate Gods have not yet been added to the Deific Chart. Check the last 2 entries on the following document: portal.php?getpage=volume3

Sailors and winos rejoice.

Gairus · Post by **Gairus** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 12:58 pm

Assuming I didn't make a mistake making him (I might), Avlis' first cleric of Mishlekh might be on the way, too. Thought i'd hallucinated her when I tried looking her up on that chart

Starslayer_D · Post by **Starslayer_D** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:00 pm

This limiting will of course make planar travel very uninterresting for clerics.

Titanium Dragon · Post by **Titanium Dragon** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:15 pm

This, of course, being totally IC and a disadvantage of playing a cleric. Truly, though, I don't think it is the end of the world - clerics are like fighers in many ways, and though not as good at it, they are still pretty nasty with no spells at all.

WrathOG777 · Post by **WrathOG777** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:20 pm

1st and 2nd level spells are enough for clerics to kick ass. Use extend, empower, maximize, quicken and you have up to 6th lvl slots filled.

Post by **Orleron** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:22 pm

Are you referring to the loss of spells on other worlds? (Keep in mind that on planes, there is no effect on spells, only on other crystal spheres/solar systems or planets. So a cleric going to the Abyss would have access to all spells no matter what, and same with Ysgard/Hala, etc.)

From a powergaming perspective, I agree with Star. Clerics will not have their full abilities when travelling to another planet that does not have access to their god. However, from a roleplaying perspective it could be fun. Certain gods, like Ptah, will have access in nearly ALL crystal spheres. Some will have access in very few. The interaction betweent the have's and have-nots will make for some interesting religious debate and church movements, I think.

Starslayer_D · Post by **Starslayer_D** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 12:47 pm

er.. it was not really powergaimng, but try fighting CR 20+ creatures without your major protection spells ... it is quite deadly, trust me. Acleric is counted as spellcaster for a reason. He is after sorcerrer, mage, druid the most spell-focused class.

RP-wise I agree, it can be fun.

Trying to keep my character alive on other worlds I have to disagree.
A cleric unable to cast major spells of healing or party augmentation loses some of his worth in a party, becomming a mediocre fighter (normally without feats like knockdown, disarm etc. wich makes a fighter better).

Lvl 2 spells are fine, but most high-level clerics will use the spells offered by lvl 2, the ability boosters in empored or extended versions, and are cut of from spelsl like: Spell resistance, Divine Power, Undeaths eternal Foe, death ward, negative energy protection, Resit element, fredom of movement, Divine Aura and prayer wich present their defensive potential.

Cure serious, cure critical, cure disease, cure blindness, restoration, heal, greater restoration, resurection, raise dead are cut off as well.

Let's not even talk about summoning and offensive spells...

I loved the *local deity takes over explanation* better there...

And I disagree with the label *powergamming here. It's simply that a cleric looses a lot what represents his function in a party with these cuts. Specially after moves have been made to enhance a clerics role as provider of the services and spells listed above in a party.
MAybe if we cut buff potion prices again...