Hoards of the Underdark Preview

Silk · Post by **Silk** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 2:58 pm

http://www.gamespy.com/previews/august03/underdarkpc/

choraldances · Post by **choraldances** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 3:28 pm

Greaaaaaaaaaat...

Brew potions and scribe scrolls will be in....

AFTER we fleshed out that part of it in Avlis.

Of course, I am willing to bet someone else's house that ours will be better

sly_1 · Post by **sly_1** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 3:39 pm

So will all those epic level thingy bops be in Avlis?

I don't know that much about all this epic level stuff other than half the people think it's a desecration of all things good and holy, while the other half think it's better than free beer. Me? I like ponies!

Silk · Post by **Silk** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:00 pm

It's a desecration to free beer.

I hereby announce that any character that reaches above level 20, is automatically and permanently polymorphed into a Lesbian Pixie, complete with sexual overdrive, perky nippled breasts and scuba gear.

Vergilius · Post by **Vergilius** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 5:45 pm

Any bets on it actually taking 4 months longer to release this thing?

Joking aside, this stuff looks interesting, but I think I can wait. As for the Epic level stuff, I never played a PNP campaign with the Epic rules so I haven't formed an opinion on them yet.

verg~

Sindol · Post by **Sindol** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 5:54 pm

Silk wrote:It's a desecration to free beer.

I hereby announce that any character that reaches above level 20, is automatically and permanently polymorphed into a Lesbian Pixie, complete with sexual overdrive, perky nippled breasts and scuba gear.

w00t!!! Time to powergame to level 20 FAST.

Brick · Post by **Brick** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:06 pm

Um, there are already a few level 20 PCs who have so much experience that they'll jump up to level 25 or so when Hordes of the Underdark arrives.

sly_1 · Post by **sly_1** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 8:09 pm

Sindol wrote:
Silk wrote:It's a desecration to free beer.

I hereby announce that any character that reaches above level 20, is automatically and permanently polymorphed into a Lesbian Pixie, complete with sexual overdrive, perky nippled breasts and scuba gear.
w00t!!! Time to powergame to level 20 FAST.

Hey, back on topic, I think it would be kinda cool if people could advance past 20th level by completing some sort of rediculous dm quest that earns them the favor of their god. Seeing as how a 20th lvl dude is pretty much allready a god, um, dude.

Maybe only rp'ers of the month or something would be eligible...

Ooh! and throw in one of those lesbian pixie thingies while your at it.

Riallus · Post by **Riallus** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:56 am

Illithids....sweet.

edit:

Whips....cool.

edit:

BioWare has the opportunity to make it even better, partially because the subject matter is cooler and partially because it appears to be implementing fan feedback (one of the company's hallmarks).

*chuckle* Yep.

Fuzz · Post by **Fuzz** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 2:56 am

I dunno... epic levels seem like they will widen the gap between the high level chars and the low level chars even more, to the point where lower level chars would essentially be alienated by high level chars who are just ridiculously more powerful, and thus make stronger spawns, and warrant more challenging DM quests.

Morbid Ridicule · Post by **Morbid Ridicule** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 3:48 am

that's why we should just kick out everyone who doesn't have a character above... *counts levels of highest level character*... level 7.

Deider · Post by **Deider** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 3:55 am

Fuzz wrote:I dunno... epic levels seem like they will widen the gap between the high level chars and the low level chars even more, to the point where lower level chars would essentially be alienated by high level chars who are just ridiculously more powerful, and thus make stronger spawns, and warrant more challenging DM quests.

Not all DM quests entail killing monsters. Some adventures transcend the traditional ideas of PC power; they are challenging no matter what level you are or what items you possess. Bring on the epic levels - let's see them face a riddling gnome, or a dwarf with no pants!

Fuzz · Post by **Fuzz** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 5:52 am

We already have dwarves with no pants...

KinX · Post by **KinX** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 6:25 am

Deider wrote:Not all DM quests entail killing monsters. Some adventures transcend the traditional ideas of PC power; they are challenging no matter what level you are or what items you possess. Bring on the epic levels - let's see them face a riddling gnome, or a dwarf with no pants!

hear hear!

Aloro · Post by **Aloro** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 7:02 am

WANTED:

Pants, size D. Will pay well. Leave message for Cha'reth at any Temple of Dru'El in T'Nanshi.

URGENT!

Some things were not meant to be.

White-Raven · Post by **White-Raven** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 8:05 am

From the preview:

By the end of the game your character will be nearly as powerful as a demigod!

Hmm? a demi god pixie?? Well... they live long enought from what i understand to reach those levels. And they will meet a triple god as an opponent i guess? I am just worried about the ballance, a party with some demi god and some lvl 10-15, how good is that?

This thread is also interesting when discussing lvls; viewtopic.php?t=13033&highlight=#73770

Lvl 25 and 475.000 xp is a lot, but as it says in this thread, you still can reach higher lvl. I dont know what the rate NWN uses for level advancement, does any of you know this? Can higher lvls be given by dms for doing quests etc, to keep the lvl progress slower?

~WR

added: Maybe viewtopic.php?t=13033 works better, but it is a lot of posts that is interesting and talks about those higher lvls, i quote the one about lvl advancement and that was linked to:

jadeia wrote:Narfell had an interesting concept to battle powergamers and their increasing cast of level 20's. They introduced a XP level cap of level 10. This meant, you could only reach level 10 by XP alone. After that, you needed DM intervention for any levels gained there after, and you would be "evaluated" in character for that advancement.

A lot of people left Narfell over this (myself included), as we generally (the con's side of the argument) felt placing a superficial cap on level advancement at level 10, would in no way combat powergaming, but only shorten the "life" of characters in general.

Characters reaching level 20, are usually "retired" in more than one way, and the player will usually start over with a new character, a new class, and a new lease of life in the RP Community.

It was an interesting concept, but completely inappropriate IMHO, and in the opinions of the others who ditched Narfell. Waiting for them to finish their build 8 was hauntingly annoying enough (I had to wait about 8 real life hours on-line, to get a Build 8 amulet, then my 1st level pc died horribly because his alignment was evil, and he was placed in a VERY difficult starting area).

Sorry to hi-jack the thread, but it was my motive for asking about the "epic" levels as I now understand them to be called.

I still wish for a limitless advancement scheme personally. Something like this below for example
LVL XP Req'd
20 100,000
21 125,000 (ie +25,000)
22 175,000 (ie +50,000)
23 250,000 (ie +75,000)
24 350,000 (ie +100,000)
25 475,000 (ie +125,000)
etc etc

It gets progressively (and quite impossibly) difficult to advance, but the fact remains, YOU CAN ADVANCE.

Removing superficial "limits" like these, among others, is the key to creating a realistic world to play in.

Vergilius · Post by **Vergilius** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 8:16 am

two things White-Raven

the thread you linked gives me the only users granted special access can view this thread, so can you please quote and paste the relevant sections into your post so we can mutually see what you meant.

As for how fast you advance in levels, going anywhere fast on Avlis just isn't going to happen. It takes a long frieken while for me to level and I have 2 chars below 10.

Its amazing when you look at the math how it all works.

By the time you reach level 10, a char has only earned less than 1/4 of the xp necessary to reach level 20.

By the time they reach 14, they have only earned less than 1/2 of the xp needed to hit level 20.

the level-up progression sort of reminds me of the guy who asked for 1 grain of wheat for the first square, and 2 for the second square on a chess board. By the time they hit the 64th square, the scribes were informing the king he didn't have enough grain in the kingdom.

On the other hand, someone could keep their own character for years and not reach 40.

verg~

Spell Singer · Post by **Spell Singer** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 9:04 am

I am not sure what additional problems higher level characters will cause. As it stands now I was in the Lost River Caverns with some of the better equiped 20th level characters and the comment made to me by the other character of less than 20th was "We are sooo out of our league."

At the moment how effective your character is depends on which "generation" you are and what class you are more than what level you are. Adding higher levels is not going to affect that in the least.

Also lately I have been gaining xp mainly from either a quick trip through the 1.78 sewers when I am in Mikona or pure RP xp in Elysia. Averages less than 100 xp per night playing (as I do not always get much xp in Elysia). So I can not imagine the time taken to get to 40th level will be short.

Also this concept that all 20th level characters are retired is garbage. Kharak and Gloknall have been more active at 20th Level then before that. The same is true of a number of other 20th level characters such as Peregryne Twostep and Belaludor.

On a RP server reaching 20th level frees your character to do just that ... role play since you now no longer need go out expressly to get xps.

Anyway I don't see that this situation will be bad for Avlis in the least.

Starslayer_D · Post by **Starslayer_D** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 10:16 am

Silk wrote:It's a desecration to free beer.

I hereby announce that any character that reaches above level 20, is automatically and permanently polymorphed into a Lesbian Pixie, complete with sexual overdrive, perky nippled breasts and scuba gear.

Level 20...check
Lesbian.... check, partime
Perky nipples... check
Pixie wings... missing...

I wanna fly!!!!!

Looking foreward to this....

Seriously, I think characters can well devellop over level 20.. I have been playing amonien as active, if not more at lvl 20 then before.
Level of power is relative... it all depends upon how they implement epic levels. I prefer the D&D3.5 solution to the epic handbook solution.

Level of power mainly depends on the factors equipment avaiable, and class.
A lvl 20 fighter has more hitpoints and hits better, but without equipment there is only so much he can do about his AC.
A mage will not gain more spells after lvl 20...

Wait and see, I would say here.

Post by **Lycanthropy** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 5:49 pm

Jesus. I have a fervent belief I'll never make level EIGHT, never mind anything like Epic levels.

That said... I'll wait and see if the implementation adds, rather than detracts from things...

Post by **Alexandru Stanicu** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 7:12 pm

I have just one thing to say about this...

Epic level characters = Epic Level Monsters

-Alex

Melakin Skywieder · Post by **Melakin Skywieder** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 11:19 pm

Alexandru Stanicu wrote:I have just one thing to say about this...

Epic level characters = Epic Level Monsters

-Alex

Shutters......

imagine the spawns left behind by a 25th lvl PC

Garand · Post by **Garand** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 12:00 am

Imagine it? Thats all I probably could do. When my poor lil PC goes wandering into an area where a 20th level character has left his or her spawns I usually only get a brief glance at what happens ... usually it has something to do with my current hit points being dropped to something like -34 or something and POOF ... Oh ... look ... the Welcome Inn of Arborea.

*sigh*

I like the idea of Epic levels only being available to winners of the RPotM AND/OR only being available through major DM quests (ala the new PrCs)

Emprod · Post by **Emprod** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 12:06 am

Garand wrote: When my poor lil PC goes wandering into an area where a 20th level character has left his or her spawns I usually only get a brief glance at what happens ... usually it has something to do with my current hit points being dropped to

OT, but I didn't think that could happen anymore since the new AI / despawner went in a couple months back?

Reinstag · Post by **Reinstag** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 12:16 am

Emprod wrote:
Garand wrote: When my poor lil PC goes wandering into an area where a 20th level character has left his or her spawns I usually only get a brief glance at what happens ... usually it has something to do with my current hit points being dropped to
OT, but I didn't think that could happen anymore since the new AI / despawner went in a couple months back?

It can still happen if the spawns haven't been sitting there long. There is some kind of time-delay before the spawn clean-up kicks in. Not sure how long though (WAG: 2 minutes)