Avlis policy on: CvC Rules - Setting Hostile

[Darkfire]

Please remember that setting someone to "dislike" is 100% Out of Character, no PC should react to being set hostile, if you do so it is metagaming.

Set your enemies to dislike: This is always the responsibility of the attacker and can be done as soon as right after logging in or as late as a split second before the actual attack but the bottom line is that it must be done.

There is a hostile button available through the radial menu. It can be quick slotted. Right click->Assign Special Abilities->Class->Hostile. Target an individual to hostile him or her, or target the ground to hostile everyone.


Activities that may be considered an attack:

• Stabbing and/or punching them
• Casting unfriendly spells on them
  • Dispelling
  • Damaging
  • Cursing
  • Or any other negative effects
• Pick Pocketing (also see: Pick-pocketing rules)
• Disarming them
• Etc.

You can still bicker back and forth without setting hostile (though you certainly can set them hostile beforehand if you wish). Just make sure before any physical/magical/etc attacks are done, the attacker sets hostile first. If you are unsure if your activity is something constitutes as a "hostile action" that warrants setting hostile, refer to Rule 0: Common sense. Set hostile to be safe because 9/10 times if you aren't sure you probably should. Not doing so is a breach of rules and ignorance is not an excuse.

The actual setting hostile (going to party list and changing from neutral to hostile) is considered an OOC action. Therefore, let IG actions determine if a character is being "hostile" towards your character, not a mechanical setting and/or red aura with a pointy sword.

If someone sets you hostile and you suddenly start buffing in preparation from 20 areas away from that character, that is metagaming. Don't do it.


Team Discussions:

Setting to Hostile
Attacking npc's and hostile settings
Contact and Hostile
Setting hostile when the PC name is unknown

[spool32]

Time for a bump. While the Gentleman's Agreement is a player agreement we do not police or enforce as a Team, THIS rule is a rule and you must abide by it. The Hostile system NWN gives us will never be perfect, but over the years this is the best we can do with the engine we use. If you're interested in the discussions, feel free to follow the links and read why we made the change last year.

You risk a warning or possible action by the Team if you fail to set Hostile before taking a hostile action.

-spool32

[Pathos Street]

Pro tip: if you set someone to "dislike" (aka "hostile"), and after a while (perhaps after a confrontation that does not result in combat) they set you back to "like" (aka "neutral"), you will appear neutral to them while they appear hostile to you.

I'd recommend the best course of action is to immediately notify the other player if you set them back to "like," so they can do the same, otherwise what appears on one screen might not match what appears on the other screen, and someone could conceivably get in trouble for it.

[Ambrosia]

( I'm sorry if I shouldn't post here. )

I just wanted to let everyone know of the "Hostile Feat" that we all now have that we can now quickslot for easy hostiles. This also works great when you aren't sure who exactly to hostile. (i.e. in a War Zone) 8)

[Kinarr]

The "Hostile Feat" also works in a 10 foot radius if you target the ground, so it's not necessary to target individual PCs if you are trying to quickly hostile a group.

[Zar'roc]

I have a question, though probably for the ask the team thread. Dispellings are considered hostile when used on another character. what if the two characters are good friends and just messing around? I know about Rule 0: Common sense, just curious.

[Darkfire]

I have a question, though probably for the ask the team thread. Dispellings are considered hostile when used on another character. what if the two characters are good friends and just messing around? I know about Rule 0: Common sense, just curious.

That's between you and the friend. You're (the dispeller between friends) at their discretion, basically. Don't just assume you can do it... that's between the PCs involved. Just know, like I said (emphasizing it) that if you incorrectly assume and take actions, you are to blame if it goes bad.

Not setting hostile in CvC can get you in a lot of trouble whether the person complains or not. Just save yourself the trouble and don't do it.

[Ambrosia]

If you cast dispell on someone YOU STILL MUST SET HOSTILE FIRST.

If you join a CvC fight already in progress, you STILL MUST SET HOSTILE FIRST.


This is a game everybody, not a "cheat to win" place to play. Please remember we are all players and here to have fun.


Thanks.

[BeyondInfinity]

what about black evards tentacles or fireball? its has an area effect... should we set hostile to other party?

[spool32]

what about black evards tentacles or fireball? its has an area effect... should we set hostile to other party?

yes yes yes yes yes. Shooting flames at someone is a hostile act! Even if it's because he's standing beside the guy you want to hit. If you don't want to damage bystanders, don't rely on the engine to protect the innocent.

Reliable way to do this is to use the Hostile menu option, and aim at the ground near your target. That will hostile an area!

[Gorgon]

Common sense is also a rule, but if you are using anything that might piss off another PC, set hostile. Even something like having an invis purge up can be a hostile act, but common sense would say hostile the folks you are trying to find by casting it. If some pc you weren't expecting walks through the aoe and shows up, you both can make the time to set hostile before the next action.

Don't cast anything you expect to even possibly start a fight without setting hostile first.

[Darkfire]

what about black evards tentacles or fireball? its has an area effect... should we set hostile to other party?

Please reread the first post. After you do that, I would like you to explain to me how shooting a fireball or Evard's would not be a hostile action so that I can update the original post to be clear on it if, for some reason, it isn't clear enough already.

[BeyondInfinity]

Dont get me wrong on this, but what i meant here is something is misfired, the casted spell like fireball, accidentally hit another pc.

[Li'll Divvil]

Dont get me wrong on this, but what i meant here is something is misfired, the casted spell like fireball, accidentally hit another pc.

Err.. don't get me wrong, you want to target one hostile/enemy PC in or near a group of non-hostiles/ friendlies and you throw a spell that has an AREA effect?

That almost sounds comical if the implications weren't rather sad, here's the bad guy standing amongst innocent civilians, let's throw a grenade!

Common sense, either hostile the group if there's cause to do such or use single target spells/attacks. If there is a chance that you "misfire" just take a moment and think what KIND of character are you playing in the game? if you are supposedly good, don't whack possible innocents, if your evil, hostile the group.

....nuff said I think.

[Calzier]

Dont get me wrong on this, but what i meant here is something is misfired, the casted spell like fireball, accidentally hit another pc.

Err.. don't get me wrong, you want to target one hostile/enemy PC in a group of non-hostiles/ friendlies and you throw a spell that has an AREA effect?

That almost sounds comical if the implications weren't rather sad, here's the bad guy standing amongst innocent civilians, let's throw a grenade!

Common sense ....nuff said I think.

Are we sure he doesn't mean collateral damage - throw a fireball at the nasty (NPC/monster/DM) and toast a few PCs in the process through incompetence?

[l1t3r]

I think he means if the spell was fired accidentally, like the hostile bug causing certain people to Wail Elf Gate on accident. If that's the case, most people are good enough to ignore what happened, and move on as if the incident did not occur. They do have the right to play it as is though, I believe.

In the case of collateral damage, if your mage throws a fireball into a mix of his own party and bad guys, that's life. Other mages will snicker at his lack of control and the party can act accordingly. That's why it's important to know how spells work, and what is best to use in any given situation.

[szabot]

Setting hostile is an OOC game-mechanic. Your PC may not wish to harm the other PCs surrounding your target, for whatever reason, but that is irrelevant to this rule. If your actions may have a negative effect (see Darkfire's list in the first post) on another PC, whether intended or not, then you must set that PC to hostile.

As for the post that started this discussion today or last night, yes, dispelling is a hostile action (again, see Darkfire's first post in this thread), so, yes, it requires setting hostile.

The Team takes this rule seriously, as it does all rules. If someone violates this rule, then let us know (take screen shots if you can).

Also, I suggest practice: log into servers and set people to hostile, preferably while at Elf Gate or in a temple of Gorethar.

[Drac]

How about the psionic power of banishment? Obviously sometimes the power is used benficially on an ally to keep them from immanent death, which I am not referring to. But on at least one occation my character was banished in a non beneficial way (i.e. He refused to move out of the way and the psion banished him). I assume there the psion needs to hostile first?

[Marleh]

There may be those who are not aware of a new button on the PC radial menu that allows a character to set a whole group to hostile at once. Click on the button, then click on the ground near the group, and it should set everyone in the nearby area to hostile.

If you click on a specific character, then only that character will be set hostile.

This way you needn't search through the entire player list to pick and choose.

[Grunt]

There may be those who are not aware of a new button on the PC radial menu that allows a character to set a whole group to hostile at once. Click on the button, then click on the ground near the group, and it should set everyone in the nearby area to hostile.

If you click on a specific character, then only that character will be set hostile.

This way you needn't search through the entire player list to pick and choose.

Also, if I recall correctly, it doesn't notify them, so it allows the setting to remain OOC. If you think you were attacked without being set hostile, check the player menu, they'll show up as hostile there even if you didn't get the message.

(We can't quote here?)

[Darkfire]

How about the psionic power of banishment? Obviously sometimes the power is used benficially on an ally to keep them from immanent death, which I am not referring to. But on at least one occation my character was banished in a non beneficial way (i.e. He refused to move out of the way and the psion banished him). I assume there the psion needs to hostile first?

Yes.

[Calzier]

[quote="Gorgon"]Common sense is also a rule, but if you are using anything that might piss off another PC, set hostile. Even something like having an invis purge up can be a hostile act, but common sense would say hostile the folks you are trying to find by casting it. If some pc you weren't expecting walks through the aoe and shows up, you both can make the time to set hostile before the next action.

Don't cast anything you expect to even possibly start a fight without setting hostile first.[/quote]

This seems to be the best summary - otherwise we might as well set hostile to all other PCs all the time (even other party members - although not sure it's possible to be hostile & partied??) to avoid the nonsense situation of accidentally breaking the rule through some ooc event (mis-click, lag, 3 yr old pulling your arm at the moment you try to target) and hitting another PC. In the midst of combat, party of PCs vs monsters, PCs are going to hit each other occasionally if any player-targeting is involved; while IC responses are appropriate and probably entertaining, the common sense rule should determine the setting of 'hostile' here (is a PC taking advantage of the situation to attack another, or is it a true accident).

[Stebby Surehand]

[quote="Grunt"]Also, if I recall correctly, it doesn't notify them, so it allows the setting to remain OOC. If you think you were attacked without being set hostile, check the player menu, they'll show up as hostile there even if you didn't get the message.[/quote]
Is this true? I fail to see the point of setting hostile if the targeted player isn't notified. Can someone explain please?

Thanks,
~Stebby

PS. Weird, I can't quote either, though Grunt's quote displayed properly when I viewed his post...

[Eklektikos]

The point is that certain things - spells, abilities etc - will not work against an opponent that is not hostile to you, therefore by not setting hostile before you attack, you potentially buy yourself an OOC advantage as your opponent may have to take the time to set you hostile before they can respond effectively.

[Li'll Divvil]

Setting hostile is purely ooc so that the NWN engine will allow for the appropriate response in terms of counterattacks automatic responses and spell targeting actions etc..

The target IC'ly does not need to know he's been set hostile ever (as it is an engine action not an IC one). Even OOC'ly you need to know you have been set hostile only after the fact or at the exact moment the attack occurs the earliest, because if you knew in advance and see that as important for your action /reaction you are metagaming a future attack that has not occurred or may not even occur at all and that your character IC'ly would not have any knowledge of until it actually occurs.

Example:
a PC assassin comes along notices you sit and chat at EG, then leaves the area comes back while hiding in shadows and observes you from the shadows. He follows you when you leave busy EG and attacks you from the shadows the moment you are alone. Your PC never sees him until the moment the DA drops you to bleed after which all goes dark......

Now where in this entire scenario should you know OOC'ly that he has set you hostile? And why would that IC'ly be important?

OOC actions should never determine IC responses