FYI: Tower Shields and 1.69

[Brayon]

Just to let others know. I installed 1.69, as someone talked me into going on another server with them for a quick event. Fired up my PC, and he was encumbered. I could not find anything that was doing it, until i looked at the weights.

Tower Shields now weight 45.0 lbs.

They use to be 19.2 pounds. Seems Bioware, finally fixed the bug on heavy item weights, and this might change a lot of PC's version of combat.


Edit: I love the horses....

[whirlin_merlin]

[Cougar]

Damn good thing most of my chars have switched over to unique large shields already!!

[Fire Monkey]

How can a shield weigh the same as a full set of plate armour?

[Ninjar]

How can a shield weigh the same as a full set of plate armour?

Magic!

[Darkfire]

How can a shield weigh the same as a full set of plate armour?

Full plate armor is tempered steel, crafted to make itself lighter but be more durable. A tower shield is quite a bit more durable, but it's not thinly crafted metal that's design is for mobility with durability... it's a much larger/thicker sheet of steel. Bash a shield as much as you want and it rarely bends, even from direct hits. Do that to the armor and you won't get the same results.

That's also why getting bashed by a shield like that could send you flying, that's a lot of mass.

[Hamlet]

A tower shield is something you put on the ground and hide behind, not something you wave around.

[gwydion2]

That's not a tower shield, that's a pavise.

Nobody can use something that heavy as a shield.
Armour fits on your body and the weight is evenly distributed.
Anything like the same weight carried by one arm is vastly more encumbering.

Actually, I can see it making sense in terms of how awkward a tower shield is to carry around. Perhaps doubling (or more) the actual weight, in terms of it's effect on the bearer.
In pure weight terms though, 45 pounds for a shield would be nonsense.

[Themicles]

BioWare changed the calculation on the TenthLBS column in baseitems.2da. This is going to affect some item weights. Only one entry actually had it's TenthLBS field changed, and that was the double sword. Tower Shield still has the same value, it's just being calculated differently.

[Grunt]

Buckler: 5lb.
Shield, small, wooden: 5lb.
Shield, small, steel: 6lb.
Shield, large, wooden: 10lb.
Shield, large, steel: 15lb.
Shield, tower: 45lb.

That's from the 3.0 Player's Handbook.

[S?retur]

So, hefty protection at a hefty price. Makes sense.

Gwyndion:
Well, that's how the PHB 3.5. says it's supposed to work (I think it grants concealment as well?). And we're dealing with heroic beings of superhuman strength here, so certain parts of realism can be safely looked away from. I mean, we're in this world where some skinny guy in a dress can show the finger, and make giant balls of fire pop up, or start a thunderstorm of acid and targeted electrical bolts - why would some knight running aruond with shining armor and a huge shield be a problem?

[nwmblondy]

My char can carry like 4000lbs whith buffed strength, which isnt that realistic either, theres no point to this post btw.

Youll all have to just pump points into strength its about time we got rid of all the weedy mages out there anyway...

[Aur]

This thread needs more Zandel.

[othotbail]

45 lbs does seem a bit heavy but on the flip side of that I know of more than one mage that wears armor and carries a tower shield. They take a few levels of fighter and the rest wizard. Most take off there armor to buff themselves up then put there armor back on. One such mage mentioned they had an armor class of 55.

[maxinion]

45 lbs does seem a bit heavy but on the flip side of that I know of more than one mage that wears armor and carries a tower shield. They take a few levels of fighter and the rest wizard. Most take off there armor to buff themselves up then put there armor back on. One such mage mentioned they had an armor class of 55.

If you think that's bad, wait till you hear about the ones that can get 70+ while casting spells in armor.

[Cougar]

45 lbs does seem a bit heavy but on the flip side of that I know of more than one mage that wears armor and carries a tower shield. They take a few levels of fighter and the rest wizard. Most take off there armor to buff themselves up then put there armor back on. One such mage mentioned they had an armor class of 55.

If you think that's bad, wait till you hear about the ones that can get 70+ while casting spells in armor.

Yeah quite easy for some to get into the 60s - Steelcasters ftw

[szabot]

Steelcasting pale masters ftw.

[Eklektikos]

Steelcasting pale masters for the falling over backwards under the weight of their own gear, now.

[Zandel]

This thread needs more Zandel.

Lol Ok here I am. Well 45 lbs is very heavy for a real shield, mine is 10 and it is a standard shoulder to shoulder chin to crotch heater shield. It is made out of aircraft aluminum though. In period it would have likely been made of wood and leather and weigh closer to 12-15. A tower sized real shield would likely weigh 15-30 lbs depending on how it was constructed, those are my estimates, I did not look them up, but they are probobly close. It is really a bit of a silly discussion though, because first of all, you would likely only see something approaching a tower shield used in line combat like the Roman center grip Scutum. In line combat like that, the shields are interlocked and movement is less important. Using a shield like that in single combat is just silly because you can't move it fast enough. I have a friend who has a solid oak shield that approaches tower shield size, it weighs 28 lbs and he can’t move it fast enough, I can pretty much hit him at will. Now as was pointed out, this is a fantasy world where people are running around with an unencumbered carrying weight of over 1000 lbs. I would say that somebody who could do that could move a 25 or even a 30 lb shield pretty fast.

[Cougar]

Steelcasting pale masters for the falling over backwards under the weight of their own gear, now.

Szabot damn good thing they do not know about the FOIG bones used in grafting!

[Darkfire]

pfft....

Steel casting is for n00bs who need higher dex.

[szabot]

Steelcasting pale masters for the falling over backwards under the weight of their own gear, now.

Szabot damn good thing they do not know about the FOIG bones used in grafting!

[Gorgon]

*stocks up on featherweight tower shields and waits for the rush*

Gimme a cleric who can scribe magic vestment to make a piece of tin that adds 10 ac, and I'm a happy camper.

*notes he can barley use a medium shield with wimp str, and 10% of 45lbs is still quite manageable.

[pincushionman]

That is not cool for only getting 1 extra AC.

[whirlin_merlin]

That is not cool for only getting 1 extra AC.

Yeah. It was already a little extreme. Large shields are +2 AC, -2 armor check penalty while tower shields are +3 -10. Fortunately the shield users I build never have an issue with weight or armor check penalties.