Fix My Build(Melee Edition)

[Sarmanos]

Years ago I had an old main who was a melee and eventually stopped playing because his build left him not being strong at well...anything due to most of my choices not being thought out well but I want to play him again. Unfortunately I have no idea what to do with him in his current state. So give me a bit of help here. I don't want Mr. Uber, just a PC that is playable again.

Race: Human
Levels: 5 Fighter, 4 Rogue, 3 Assassin
Stats: Str 17, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 8
I won't go into the feats he has but Ambidexterity, Two Weapon Fighting, and Weapon Finesse are not among them.

Problem: He's not a good fighter or a good rogue due to his skill and level spread. He has to wear full plate and use a tower shield to have good AC but he can't rogue up too well then, but in light armor he's too easy to kill.

[Fire Monkey]

Yikes, thats a tough one. I would say you need to abandon either the sneak route or the fighter rout and concentrate on one aspect. With that intelligence I don't think his Assassin skills are going to be particularly good (though I dont' know much about the new assassin abilities). To be a rogue/assassin you really need to be in leather armour at a minimum I would say so you need a buffed Dex of at least 22 and preferably much higher. If you really want to make a go of that you would need to start to dump points into Dex and Int if you want to be an Assassin.

If you can't manage that you might want to just stick with the armoured fighter (your stats seem more suited to that) and console yourself that he is a fighter with a decent sneak attack. You probably need to take most of the rest of your levels up to 20 as fighter to maximise your AB. Then use your lovely fighter feats to start building up your damage (weapon spec, weapon focuses etc.). You should also make the most of your Int 14 by taking Imp Knockdown and Imp Disarm. Both are excellent at turning a fight and the Imp knockdown will give you a lot more sneak damage.

Once you hit epic you can choose more freely between your different classes. Assassin levels perhaps for some of the spells (imp invis etc.), rogue levels for the skill points (umd etc.). Ultimately you could make a decent fighter who can also cast from scrolls and use a variety of class specific gear (UMD) and can also do good sneak damage.

[chamalscuro]

He'd make a good "thug" type rogue.

Knockdown/IKD your opponents to the ground, then Sneak them to death. If a fight starts going south, rely on Tumble (get it high enough, and armor won't matter) to break away. Forget about the sneaky skills (Hide/MS), but INT- and CHA-based skills will work fine. Carry cases of Invis potions. Make sure to max Discipline on Fighter level-ups.

I don't know much about Assassin, particularly the Avlis version.

[theP]

You'll have to go the Strength route, is what I'd suggest.
Lets say take a few more levels in Rogue (10th would be the best. For one of the nice extra Rogue Feats, i.e. Crippling and the Skills. Can't never have enough of those...)
Specialize on a Strength based weapon. Possibly something that's ic for him (Bastard Sword,/Katana; etc.) Get the Weapon Feats: Focii & the Spec's (a must if you're Fighter type, I'd say)
Imp. Knockdown/Disarm are top.

Next would be the question of rp... Does he ever want to train other Ass'ins?
If so, go parallel with Rogue (meaning, try to get on 10th).
You'll have a nice Sneak+Death Attack, plus the STR bonus, Power attacks and whatnots.

If you want to play him til then end, whereever that will be (say, Utopia, 40th Level), concentrate on Fighter & the Epic Feats.
Pump STR and a little INT. Leave CON & DEX as it is. Maybe a little CHA for some of the Rogue/Ass'in skills (UMD!! & if the "Thug"-type is your thing, go persuade/intimidate).

And at Epic do your character a favor and take Epic Will with one of the Fighter feats.


Scale Mail or Chain Shirt would be the Armor type he should depend on. (for the Dex bonus.)

hope that was a little help.

[sinn]

my advice, which maybe terrible, since my current character is gimp as well...

get 2 more points of Dex (18), switch to studded leather (should be some good ones easy to find since most dont use it)

keep pumping STR and ignore the assassin stuff leveling in rouge to 10 for that special feat crip strike or something, and level fighter the rest of the way

be sure to max out tumble and UMD

also it seems you wanted to wield 2 weapons do something fun like a battle axe and a whatever is 'light (since I think you get less of a negative to hit) a hand axe might be cool as well

duel weild as much as you can but you will need to learn which baddies you need to whip out the shield for

as for feats honestly I dont know too much about them, but knock down is a must with your sneak attacks, blind fight is good too if you find some way to cast darkness (scrolls, wands, items) then there is spec. and focus for what ever your main weapon will be cleave and great cleave are good too along with improv crit for your axes*shrugs* far to many feats to list..

oh yeah, get a bow too so you dont have to always be a melee guy.. also you can grease them then bow them with sneak attacks if I remember correctly, once they get up and manage to rush you, then whip out them nasty axes and cut them in two


EDIT just realized you said you didnt want to due wield, in that case get a big axe.. great axes are nice and ignore everything I said above about duel wielding, the studded leather will not hurt your rogue skills to much, and you can always put the shield away when sneaking about or doing other rogue things

[szabot]

One thing to keep in mind is that, in my experience, most PCs go through a period during which they seem stuck like this, regardless of their build. Level 12 seems to be in the usual range for that. In fact, I have a few alts that stalled out around that level for similar reasons.

So, it may be that you just need to patiently get a few levels, then it will start to seem effective again, regardless of the build. (Although I haven't managed to take that advice with my own alts!)

[Moredo]

I'm totally the opposite. Levels 10 - 16 are the most fun! Everything is challenging, and yet you don't die around every corner.

chamalscuro gave some good points Sarm, I'd go 8 8 4 pre epic.

[Aur]

He'd make a good "thug" type rogue.

Knockdown/IKD your opponents to the ground, then Sneak them to death. If a fight starts going south, rely on Tumble (get it high enough, and armor won't matter) to break away. Forget about the sneaky skills (Hide/MS), but INT- and CHA-based skills will work fine. Carry cases of Invis potions. Make sure to max Discipline on Fighter level-ups.

I don't know much about Assassin, particularly the Avlis version.

You're not that bad off, honestly!

Four levels of rogue gives you uncanny dodge, so you're not gaining anything by wearing plate. I'd find some good chainmail, take one more rogue level, followed by one more fighter level. That gives you a bonus feat (knockdown, improved knockdown, blindfight, or weapon focus are good options) and some more sneak attack damage, even with sword'n'board or a two-hander.

Strength-based rogues can be fun to play, and Chamalscuro made some good points. I'd make sure to put points in Intimidate and Discipline as well, fits the character and should keep the game fun.

[gwydion2]

I'd concentrate on strength and fighter levels to get your BAB up as fast as possible. You are stuck in plate for the forseeable future so make the best of it.
Lots of fighter bonus feats will turn him into a half decent combatant soon enough.
IKd, Combat Expertise, Weapon specialisation and improved crit, will make him a decent hitter.
At some point take a 5th rogue level for the extra dice of sneak and some tumble AC.

He will never be the best solo fighter, but with his sneak attack ability he can be a very effective party fighter.

Forget about stealth skills. If you want to surprise someone drink an invisibilty potion. If they have true seeing, well you were never going to sneak up on them with this guy anyway. Plenty of targets out there that don't have it.

[gwydion2]

Four levels of rogue gives you uncanny dodge, so you're not gaining anything by wearing plate. I'd find some good chainmail

he's gaining 2 points of ac

8 +1 dex = 9 in full plate

5 +2 dex = 7 in chainmail

[Jokester]

Stats:

Leave Con and Int alone. Instead put all your points into Str. I wouldn't touch Wis or Cha either for the fact that they don't do you anything in this context.

Feats:

Try to grab Knockdown, Improved Knockdown, Weaponfocus, and Improved Critical by taking fighter levels for the extra feats.

Levels:

As I previously mentioned take fighter levels all the way up to total level nineteen, and then perhaps move back to rogue.

General advice:

Don't expect to be a sneaker. Instead focus on becoming a fighter by using armor-make sure it still allows for your dex bonus-alongside a towershield and a one-handed weapon. Take a few fighter levels, throw in a couple rogue, and then back to fighter.

Plenty of people make builds like this, and perhaps they aren't as strong as some, but they're not a horrible gimp or anything. Just play a few more levels and see what happens.

[robocod]

Archer? Stay at the back, and let the others take the damage.

Dex is reasonable, and can be buffed. STR for mighty. Sneak for extra damage.

Assassin's can use poison, which I think you can use on stacks of arrows too.

You have UMD and Tumble, as class skills, which are both excellent.

For coolness, wait for the next Bioware patch which has Rapid Reload "fixed" so you get more attacks with crossbow, and use crossbow and plate-armor. (A cool looking combo IMHO).

I don't know what assassin does, I heard they re-did a lot of the spells / abilities.

Fighter/Rogue combo, on Avlis gives you access to militant levels and UMD bonuses (on device magic). I forget what level militant bonuses kick in, but it really increases your buffs for STR, CON & DEX.

For close-combat, switch to shield + sword/axe. (Tower shield +2 are not hard to come by, gives you +5 AC instantly).

(BTW, my gobbo Dak is Barb/Rogue. DEX is only 14. Wears plate, definitely he is not the sneaking type... except for sneak damage Oh, and tumble for extra dodge AC.. did I mention tumble already?)

[sinn]

Four levels of rogue gives you uncanny dodge, so you're not gaining anything by wearing plate. I'd find some good chainmail

he's gaining 2 points of ac

8 +1 dex = 9 in full plate

5 +2 dex = 7 in chainmail

another reason I thought to go with a dex of 18 and studded leathers

4 +4dex = 8 in studded leather (and you dont take too much of a hit when using your rogue skills

[Eklektikos]

Studded leather gives 3 points of AC, not 4.

Chain shirt / scale mail would give 4 + 4 from DEX, but then you're in a situation where the armour check penalty is beginning to impinge a bit and you're still one point of AC down from where you'd be in full plate, so it could in some ways be the worst of both worlds.

[Aur]

Four levels of rogue gives you uncanny dodge, so you're not gaining anything by wearing plate. I'd find some good chainmail

he's gaining 2 points of ac

8 +1 dex = 9 in full plate

5 +2 dex = 7 in chainmail

Right, sorry. Thought chainmail was base AC 5 with +3 max dex bonus. Guess that kinda invalidates that theory.

[sinn]

Studded leather gives 3 points of AC, not 4.

doh!

what armor is it then that is 4 and allows 4dex.. I am pretty sure I saw it IG,

[Aur]

Studded leather gives 3 points of AC, not 4.

doh!

what armor is it then that is 4 and allows 4dex.. I am pretty sure I saw it IG,

Scale mail is 4 AC with max Dex of +4. Edit: Also Chain shirt.

[Eklektikos]

Scale mail is 4 AC with max Dex of +4. Edit: Also Chain shirt.

Oops, yes. Scale mail, not breastplate. You'd think I'd remember, considering my main used to wear the stuff habitually. *facepalms and runs off to edit earlier post*

[sinn]

Chain shirt / scale mail would give 4 + 4 from DEX, but then you're in a situation where the armour check penalty is beginning to impinge a bit and you're still one point of AC down from where you'd be in full plate, so it could in some ways be the worst of both worlds.

still better than splint mail isnt that like 6 with 1dex?

[Eklektikos]

Chain shirt / scale mail would give 4 + 4 from DEX, but then you're in a situation where the armour check penalty is beginning to impinge a bit and you're still one point of AC down from where you'd be in full plate, so it could in some ways be the worst of both worlds.

still better than splint mail isnt that like 6 with 1dex?

Yup, but if you're going as heavy as splint mail then you might as well go all the way and grab full plate for 8 +1. I really struggle to think of any good practical reason for wearing splint mail except maybe to deal with encumbrance issues.

[sinn]

Chain shirt / scale mail would give 4 + 4 from DEX, but then you're in a situation where the armour check penalty is beginning to impinge a bit and you're still one point of AC down from where you'd be in full plate, so it could in some ways be the worst of both worlds.

still better than splint mail isnt that like 6 with 1dex?

Yup, but if you're going as heavy as splint mail then you might as well go all the way and grab full plate for 8 +1. I really struggle to think of any good practical reason for wearing splint mail except maybe to deal with encumbrance issues.

my character wears splint, but thats because he couldn't find any plate better than +1 so he had to settle for splint

[Eklektikos]

my character wears splint, but thats because he couldn't find any plate better than +1 so he had to settle for splint

I hope that's one hell of a set of splint mail, because straight up full-plate is arguably more useful than a set of +2 splint mail.

[gwydion2]

In the old days, +4 Mithril Splint was pretty common on Avlis. There are still a fair few sets left over I bet. It's essentially +2 Full plate with reduced weight.
Never really liked it myself. As a Cleric/Rogue, I prefer full plate to get maximum advantage from Magic Vestment.

[sinn]

In the old days, +4 Mithril Splint was pretty common on Avlis. There are still a fair few sets left over I bet. It's essentially +2 Full plate with reduced weight.
Never really liked it myself. As a Cleric/Rogue, I prefer full plate to get maximum advantage from Magic Vestment.

thats the one Mithril Splint, though I dont know what Magic Vestment is

[gwydion2]

Magic vestment is a cleric spell that adds enchantment bonus to armour like GMW does for weapons, so it's best to start with something that has a higher base armour bonus like full plate.
The enchantment bonus of any armour I wear is only a backup used when my spells run out.