Character Build Question - Mages take a lookski

[NecroZombie]

I'm not asking for teh 00b3r build, but I just want to make sure I'm not fucking up 4 years of playing my character. That would suck.

Here's the scenario:

My character (human) is currently a 10th level Rogue and 9th level Fighter (yeah.. I know.. 4 years and only 19th level ).

I have always wanted to play a mage. I know exactly jack and shit about playing a wizard.

The question: I'm considering taking all Wizard levels after 20th level (so 21st level would be 1st level Wiz). Ending up with 10R/10F/20W (sometime before the year 2050 I hope).

Does this seem reasonable?
You should know that I tend to solo a lot . Would this build fuckker me?

BTW - I have tried to create a Wizard alt. I just can't deal with starting over again. It sucks.

Any advice or thoughts?

[spool32]

With a low INT or CHA, this is going to be an RP build. If you've got good INT or CHA, I suggest you consider Steelcasting as an RP choice... you might have a lot of fun with that.

I am not Mr. Build though.. I'm sure others will have better suggestions.

[NecroZombie]

I think I have a 14 in INT right now.

I'd take INT at every other chase in future levels.

[Marleh]

Moredo or Crunk would be the one to talk to about a build like this, but in the beginning you should be more than fine. Its the higher spells that you will really need Int for. Your character should easily be able to survive using his fighting skills first, casting second, and by choosing wizard you can focus on buff spells in the lower spell circles to augment your fighting side, but still be able to have the choice of several offensive spells when needed.

I strongly suggest that one of your first feats taken be Still Spell, so you can cast reliably in armor.

I say all this without ever having played a wizard btw, so don't quote me. Heh.

[Darkfire]

I could help you out, but gotta give me some time. Doing an assload of homework right now.

[spool32]

Still Spell will be key, yeah.

[Jazz]

INT 14 is enough to take Wizard levels. Remember, you need to have 10+X INT to cast a spell of level X. Example: If you want to cast a level 7 spell, you need at least INT=17. So if you choose INT from now on (or even Greater Intelligence as (Bonus Wizard) Feats) you'll be safe.

You can already frontline pretty well, I assume. Are you DEX or STR based?
-STR, then you could go Steelcaster: wear a Full Plate and take the Still Spell feat. You can cast spells 1 spell slot higher (yes, this is a decent advantage, especially since you won't gain caster levels that fast) without Arcane Spell Failure. Automatic Stil Spell I+II+III will be out of reach, since you need to be able to cast level 9 spells.
Conclusion: if you value AC above casting higher level spells, go for this way. I wouldn't do it, since the effect of your mage levels will be even less visible then.

-The other option would be to go with some clothing (no or very low AC) so you don't have any Arcane Spell Failure. Great for DEX builds also. This would be my pick. You can still use a shield, just unequip it before you cast, then equip. I do that and don't mind.

Mages have some good buff spells on the lower levels for if you want to solo, like Mage Armour, Protection from Evil, Keen Edge, Shield, Flame Weapon, Greater Magical Weapon (although this will be only a good spell on higher levels), Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, etc. to name a few. Problem: short duration. If you don't mind buying Rods to Extend the spells, it's not that bad. Otherwise, be sure you take every opportunity to rest once the 16 RL minutes are passed.

Another question would be: chose a specific school or go general. Since you know 0 about mages, I would normally recommand general. But in this case a specific school would be a good choice: you'll have 1 more spellslot for ever level of spell. The drawback is that you can't cast spells of the opposite school, so you'll need to look at the spells of those schools a bit and decide which ones you can do without. If that's too much work, just go general, that's never a bad choice.

All in all, it's not a bad move. Just don't expect too much greatness from your spells at the lower levels, but the buffs are decent at least. I think it will be fun if you have a few mage levels under your belt.
If you have questions, you know where to find me

[NecroZombie]

LOL.. You guys fucked me up with that Steelcasting terminology - I was doing a search on NWN wiki for that and getting nada.

So Still Spell = Steelcasting. Gottcha

Told ya I don't know anything about mages.

I could help you out, but gotta give me some time. Doing an assload of homework right now.
I could help you out, but gotta give me some time. Doing an assload of homework right now.

Damn right you're going to help me out! Now get done with that pre-algebra and holla!

[NecroZombie]

You can already frontline pretty well, I assume. Are you DEX or STR based?

Ummm... yeah. Both!?

If I was taking a rogue level when a stat bump came around, I took DEX... if it was fighter...STR *shrugs* kinda st00pid I guess.

Another question would be: chose a specific school or go general. Since you know 0 about mages, I would normally recommand general. But in this case a specific school would be a good choice: you'll have 1 more spellslot for ever level of spell. The drawback is that you can't cast spells of the opposite school, so you'll need to look at the spells of those schools a bit and decide which ones you can do without. If that's too much work, just go general, that's never a bad choice.

This is an area I'll have to research, or have DorkFire sk00l me in... when he's done with his homework, of course

[Jazz]

If your DEX is about as high as your STR, I would not choose the Steelcaster way. Just slap on some pair of robes or clothing. You'll be able to sneak around too, if you've put ranks in Hide & Move Silent too!

If you come on IRC I can give you a few tips more.

[chamalscuro]

One drawback to steelcasting with so many non-mage class levels are the Dispel Magic spells (Lesser, reg, Greater Dispelling, and Mords Disjunction).

Dispels get thrown around more often than you'd like. Lotsa NPCs, PCs, hell, even some traps throw dispels at ya. It's pretty rough going to finish a buffing session, charge into combat, get hit with a dispel or two, and lose all your buffs. Your low caster level means you'll get cleaned out.

Plenty of players have adapted to this, but I personally find it annoying enough to have abandoned a steelcaster character w/o enough caster levels.

[Jazz]

If you don't steelcast (use Still Spell), but do take Wizard levels, you'll get Dispelled at the same rate. It's just a drawback of having few mage levels, not for choosing to Steelcast.

[chamalscuro]

Right, sloppy wording on my part.

I always found getting de-buffed in combat to be no fun. Your buddies are busy fighting, and you spend precious rounds recasting just some of the spells you need. Your slots for the day empty out real quick that way. Being dispelled while soloing can end up being a quick trip to your death plane.

[spool32]

Steelcasting is about more than just Still Spell though.. it's a RPed as a whole style of magic where the mage learns to be a combatant and wield spells while wearing a sword and shield and fighting in the frontline. Still Spell is key because it means you don't have to take off your heavy armor to cast reliably. However, this is a style that favors someone with an average DEX. If you get any sort of real AC assistance from your DEX, steelcasting is not for you - instead you should consider a more traditional magey role. If you typically suit up in Full Plate now, think steelcaster. If you typically wear light armor now, look for another RP style for your mage career.

[Pathos Street]

Notes on low-level spellcasting with a high-level multiclass

- Anything is going to be able to resist your spells if they have SR. Dragons, monks, and especially dragon monks are gonna laugh at your pitiful caster level. Might want to consider spell penetration feats once you have a few levels under your belt
- You will be dispelled often, and not be able to dispell things you fight (use breaches instead!)
- Focus on combat. If you have at least 18 dex, i'd consider taking finesse and going the unarmored mage route. Once you get 7 or so mage levels, you shouldn't have to bother with armor and still spell, unless you can't live without full plate. You'll buff that up pretty high and get AC from other sources (mage armor e.g.). Essential spells to work towards are bull's strength, cat's grace, endurance, haste, heroism, stoneskin, improved invisibility, and the undisputed king of the fighter-mage buffs: tenser's transformation. Metamagic feats are nice, especially extend (double duration of buffs) and, if you have a couple extra feats to spare, empower/maximize (get more out of those variable-number buff spells).
- spellcraft! needed for epic spells (epic mage armor is a must for a combat-oriented mage) and also gives you +1 saves vs. spells for every 5 ranks. Pump this up, and you'll start IDing all the spells that other casters cast, the psionic powers that psions are using, and finding changelings mimicing your form.
- only do it if you really want to RP mageness. The character really won't come into his own until he is well into the level 30's, when your spell durations and effects start to really matter. Honestly, and you can ask any mage character that has multiclassed after taking lots of levels in other classes, it's much more fun, rewarding, and powerful to play a pure or near-pure caster class. Personally, I'd recommend that you roll a mage alt instead.

[Moredo]

With four attacks per round, and 5d6 sneaks he'll do plenty of damage even if he's dispelled.

20 wizard doesn't need to be a bad idea, though you're going to get a 20% penalty until you get to level 29, unless you play a race that has wizard as it's favored class. Given that it's taken you four years to get to level 19, that'll be a problem for you.

Other than that, if you have high DEX I'd go the chain mail route and try to find one with -x% casting failure. That's how I roll with Samwir. Though I don't claim to be a Steelcaster, but more a spellsword type. You won't have the feats to get Still Spell III on 20 mage leves, as you're bound to have to take some Greater INT feats, or I'd do that at any rate. Also for a spellsword, Extend Spell is a must.

Most importantly of all, have fun with the char!

[Cougar]

Auto Still Spell feats make it super nice, but remember that you cannot take the first feat until 17th lvl wizard. The main requirement being able to cast 9th lvl spells. But even the first one would allow you to do basic buffs at normal spell levels. If your concerned about being dispelled learn spell mantles they are a life saver, take it from one who knows.

[whirlin_merlin]

People have pretty much said everything I was going to say. Low caster level will mean getting dispelled, which is annoying. You will also miss epic spells and Epic Mage Armor is really good. You should also consider if you are planning to cast in combat whether you can get your concentration skill high enough. My mage's is 54 when fully buffed. I never really fail concentration checks unless an enemy has a +5 weapon or my Premonition is gone. Also be careful if you do decide to specialize in a spell school as a Wizard. It might look cool, but you can end up losing a very important school. Divination is See Invis, True Seeing, and Premonition (30/+5 absorbing 10 points of damage/level if you don't know. Extremely important for me) for example. You lose that if you focus in necromancy. People don't seem to mind losing Enchantment focusing in Illusion. My Sorcerer only has one Enchantment spell and it's a cantrip. In conclusion, RP is the most important thing, and a few buffs can help a lot when soloing. I know I miss my mage when I play my fighter. 13 fewer levels and no spells means I often feel like giving up.

Edit: Whatever you do you won't be losing much BAB and if you keep your STR up highish you'll maintain your melee abilities so getting dispelled won't be the end of the world like it is for my mage. The buffs will be icing on the cake, not the difference between life and death.

[maxinion]

I know people said it before, but because of your low int, I want to emphasize that you should stick to buffs and avoid damaging spells. Those huge numbers you see flying around from all the hardcore mages? Its only because their int/cha is in the 30s and above, which gives them decent DCs on their spells. Considering you're starting at 14 int, your DCs are going to be really, really bad.

On the other hand, one spell you will want: burning bolt. No DC, and with your sneak attacks and high ranged touch attack bonus, this one will pwn for you.

[Sephira]

On the other hand, one spell you will want: burning bolt. No DC, and with your sneak attacks and high ranged touch attack bonus, this one will pwn for you.

Other Touch Attack spells are likely to be pretty awesome too, the lesser and normal elemental orbs and possibly even Disintegrate.

[maxinion]

On the other hand, one spell you will want: burning bolt. No DC, and with your sneak attacks and high ranged touch attack bonus, this one will pwn for you.

Other Touch Attack spells are likely to be pretty awesome too, the lesser and normal elemental orbs and possibly even Disintegrate.

orbs not so much: they have a DC. Not sure about Disintegrate.

[Eklektikos]

orbs not so much: they have a DC.

According to ze Wiki (last time I looked) lesser orbs don't have a DC, while the standard ones do.

[l1t3r]

Disintegrate has a DC, but the real fun will be KD'ing someone, sneak attacking them for a ton of damage, and then finishing off with a no save Power Word Kill for the flair!

Seriously though, I think you'll find that build rather kick ass. While damage spells may not be your big win due to DC's, there are plenty of spells that have no saves, and will be very fun to use. I say go for it, with the buffs available, you won't be gimping yourself.

[Beary666]

Auto Still Spell feats make it super nice, but remember that you cannot take the first feat until 17th lvl wizard. The main requirement being able to cast 9th lvl spells. But even the first one would allow you to do basic buffs at normal spell levels. If your concerned about being dispelled learn spell mantles they are a life saver, take it from one who knows.

Actually no. The main requirement is being a 21st in a caster class. Meaning you need 21 lvls in one of Wizard, Sorc, Cleric or druid.

[Adm.Venge]

Actually no. The main requirement is being a 21st in a caster class. Meaning you need 21 lvls in one of Wizard, Sorc, Cleric or druid.

You are still off. From the NWN Wiki:

Automatic still spell
Prerequisite: Spellcraft 27, 21st level, cast 9th level spells, Still spell

Meaning you need 21 total character levels and able to cast 9th level spells. You wont have 27 in Spellcraft until character level 24 in any case.