When familiars die

szabot · Post by **szabot** » Fri Dec 24, 2004 4:02 am

From PlanetNeverwinter:

Summon Familiar:
Wizards can summon a familiar, a magical, unusually tough, and intelligent small animal
Wizards choose which type of familiar is summoned
As the wizard increases in level, the familiar gains additional abilities
If the familiar dies, a Fortitude save must be made (DC 15) or lose (200 x level) XP
Successful saves reduce XP loss to (100 x level)

Is it true that a wizard loses XP when his familiar dies???

Hylia · Post by **Hylia** » Fri Dec 24, 2004 4:04 am

In PnP, yes.

In NWN, no.

szabot · Post by **szabot** » Fri Dec 24, 2004 4:15 am

Ah, because the site is PlanetNeverwinter, I assumed all the info on it was about NWN.

Drysh · Post by **Drysh** » Fri Dec 24, 2004 5:24 am

That is something I'll like to see. Now we have spell share with familiars, why not include the bad side as well?

But maybe 200 xp / level is too much for Avlis. How about 100 / level (st for 50 / level)? And the familiar could leave a body, so you could raise him to avoid losing xp (get it back).

Enverex · Post by **Enverex** » Fri Dec 24, 2004 10:01 am

Yeah, in BG2 if your familiar died you took damage and lost 1 CON point PERMANENTLY. But now in NWN summons seem to have been turned into mindless summons...

Marijn · Post by **Marijn** » Fri Dec 24, 2004 10:06 am

If your familiar dies you lose HP right? Permanently as I understand correctly?

Wyrmwing · Post by **Wyrmwing** » Fri Dec 24, 2004 10:51 am

Nah.. only temporary.

Familiars are just re-usable summons in nwn.. sad thing really. Cheers for the people who actually treat their familiars as a living, feeling being

Final Shinryuu · Post by **Final Shinryuu** » Fri Dec 24, 2004 3:20 pm

At least we can be thankful that Bioware gave us the option to posses familiars. Without that, there would be no RP oppertunites whatsoever.

CPU · Post by **CPU** » Fri Dec 24, 2004 6:32 pm

When Familiars Die...

Wasn't that an old 1980's Prince song?

Adhin · Post by **Adhin** » Fri Dec 24, 2004 6:50 pm

heh id like to point out a little something. First of all in BG2, you could keep your familiar IN YOUR BACKPACK to prevent this. Familiars in PnP arnt exactly a major fighting companion like say, some animal companions for druids. There basicly usually a small animal, like a lizard, or an owl which happens to be smart, can talk and rarely fights for or with you. They just sit around helping with small tasks and improve a skill or two. They alterd there role in NWN to be more to that of a animal companion just...weaker (or supposively weaker).

My point to this is, in PnP that exp penalty is there basicly to ensure everyone realises your little lizard which can speak to you isnt exactly going to run up and beat down a Balor becuase you buffed him. And attempting to DO so should cause you exp, as your obviusly becoming mentaly ill and deserve it from pure stupidty. Doing so in NWN however is something completely diffirent.

Enverex · Post by **Enverex** » Fri Dec 24, 2004 8:25 pm

Adhin wrote:heh id like to point out a little something. First of all in BG2, you could keep your familiar IN YOUR BACKPACK to prevent this..

And in NWN you can unsummon them...

Post by **Alexandru Stanicu** » Sat Dec 25, 2004 1:27 am

I think if your familar dies you should have to save or die.
And if you save then you should take a permant Con loss, and a permant Int loss...this would reflect that you are supposed to be bound together.

JadeNight · Post by **JadeNight** » Sat Dec 25, 2004 1:50 am

Let's not be so rough on the little fellas. If there is an xp loss it shouldn't be anymore than what the PC loses when he dies. So maybe 25xp per level and I like the suggestion on being able to raise the little fella to avoid taking the xp loss.

GreyLynx · Post by **GreyLynx** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 8:17 pm

I wouldn't want to see a permanent loss of con or int to a mage for a familiar dying for the same reason I wouldn't want to see the death penalties more severe and/or permanent for anyone. No matter how careful you are or how smart you play, ooc game engine/internet connection problems can get you in the end. A bad spree of lag deaths, and a mage becomes either unplayable, or learns to never summon his/her familiar.

Cymbolism · Post by **Cymbolism** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 9:04 pm

the only bummer is that in NwN you don't have the luxury of sitting back in your chair listening to the DM tell you what your familiar is doing and decide it's actions.
It all happens realtime, hence you are not bound together by shit except that it will mindlessly run in and get itself killed while you are busy running away

not so bad on it's own as they seem to follow what you are doing pretty tightly, but if you have a summons as well, they seem to attack by default anything hostile, so your familiar follows suit

hewhorocks · Post by **hewhorocks** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 4:10 am

true enough. it can be really annoying. Its like trying to play two pcs at once.

Drysh · Post by **Drysh** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 3:03 am

25 xp per level (of the pc, not the familiar level) is a good idea. With a corpse when he dies to let it be raised to get that xp back (even if the one who casted the raise/ressurect isn't the master of the familiar). It will bring us good RP opportunities.

hewhorocks · Post by **hewhorocks** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 5:02 am

how about deathplane quests for familiars?
lol
since were on the subject.

Boo_Bear · Post by **Boo_Bear** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 8:00 am

I'm curious, what is the difference between a familiar and a companion? besides being a druid and mage. Forgive me if it is a stupis question, but the only difference I've seen (for my char. has both) is that I can posess one but not the other. To her, they are both very real, and it pains my char. to see either one die. And actually, it bothers her to see her summons die or get hurt.... and really, aren't they real too?

Arieanne · Post by **Arieanne** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 8:01 am

Enverex wrote:
Adhin wrote:heh id like to point out a little something. First of all in BG2, you could keep your familiar IN YOUR BACKPACK to prevent this..
And in NWN you can unsummon them...

And can't summon back without resting...And if you are actually on the lowest level of sewers...

Arieanne · Post by **Arieanne** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 8:23 am

Boo_Bear wrote:I'm curious, what is the difference between a familiar and a companion? besides being a druid and mage. Forgive me if it is a stupis question, but the only difference I've seen (for my char. has both) is that I can posess one but not the other. To her, they are both very real, and it pains my char. to see either one die. And actually, it bothers her to see her summons die or get hurt.... and really, aren't they real too?

I can see difference...I mean, mainly "IC difference" (OOC they are very similar).

First of all, my char Airinn has one familiar type forever. You can change it of course, while levelling, but I never do it. She has panther - Shanti. Shanti has not only name but also own history, which is closely bound with Airinn's lifestory. This panther is Airinn's pet, something similar to dog or cat IRL. When Airinn unsummons Shanti, she describes it IC as.."sending her panther to special dimension, where it has home, is safe, can sleep or eat" and so on..

As to summoned cretures...Airinn had plenty of them. Badger, woolf, bear, spider, actually she has red and green slaads. She likes them, but treat as magical beings...When she unsummons them - they just disappear. When she summons them again - these are not exactly THE SAME summons...More precisely, she has no-ending number of DIFFERENT summons to call. Moreover, Airinn thinks, that these summons AREN'T real beings, aren't alive...rather magical energy turned into summon's shape.

If I'm wrong in my understanding summon's and familiar's role IC, feel free to correct me

Serineth Swiftpaw · Post by **Serineth Swiftpaw** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 10:43 am

Arieanne wrote:
Enverex wrote:
Adhin wrote:heh id like to point out a little something. First of all in BG2, you could keep your familiar IN YOUR BACKPACK to prevent this..
And in NWN you can unsummon them...
And can't summon back without resting...And if you are actually on the lowest level of sewers...

If you summon and then rest whilst the familiar is still summoned you will then be able to resummon. Check it. Meaning you can unsummon and then resummon without resting.

Wyrmwing · Post by **Wyrmwing** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 4:15 pm

hewhorocks wrote:true enough. it can be really annoying. Its like trying to play two pcs at once.

Never had that problem yet.. busy, yes, but never dull

Drysh · Post by **Drysh** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 5:29 am

Boo_Bear wrote:I'm curious, what is the difference between a familiar and a companion? besides being a druid and mage. Forgive me if it is a stupis question, but the only difference I've seen (for my char. has both) is that I can posess one but not the other. To her, they are both very real, and it pains my char. to see either one die. And actually, it bothers her to see her summons die or get hurt.... and really, aren't they real too?

- The companion is a pet. Like a dog or cat in RL. They are not magical, they are a creature you trained or befriended. I don't know if they changed that in 3rd ed, but in 3nd you could even have more than one companion. Most companions (specialy when you have an evil DM like me) have to be found in-game, and you have to RP befriending him and earning his trust.

- The familiar mind is linked to the mage. It's not a friend, it's a special animal bound to the mage's mind, body and soul. You have to make a ritual to bind yourself to the animal (the spell find familiar is only the easiest way). And after that two things will hapen: the familiar will grow stronger because of the mind-link, and the mage will acquire some special abilities from the familiar. If your PC binds himself to a giffon (extremely difficult, only one PC ever managed to do that in my games, and it cost him a con point) you may develop a better sight (bonus to spot maybe), but you also may develop a taste for raw horse meat (almost incontrolable, requiring a wisdom check to ride a horse without biting it).

- Summons are reals (if you play a Planescape campaign you will learn to be afraid of summon spells, specialy when you are the summoned creature). But different characters may feel different about them: Torik doesn't mind if his animal summons die (the same way he won't mind if a normal animal dies), and when he is angry he summons a slaad to kill (crazy demons for a LN character), but if he sees someone hurting a formian he might defend it ((drysh speaking: I hate formians, why isn't it a modron)). A druid will probably be nice to summoned animals.

This difference makes things different for familiars and the rest: when you cast a spell on yourself, your familiar has a chance of sharing the spell effects; this also may work the other way around, it's possible to cast a spell on the mage using his familiar; if you and your familiar are apart, the familiar will die in a few days; when the familiar dies the mage feels the death, bringing him physical damage (loss of hp or constitution), mental damage (nightmares and minor insanities are common), and spiritual damage (loss of xp .. err.. I mean svartz).

EDIT: I forgot, in PnP you only summon your summons. Familiars and companions cannot be summoned / unsummoned.

Arcsylver · Post by **Arcsylver** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 3:04 pm

I personally wouldn't mind seeing the find familiar spell implemented somehow in the game instead of the cheesy way Bioware did it in NWN.

It would be interesting to put a bit of randomness to what is attracted by the spell as well. Instead of choosing which creature you get it could be a random roll from a table of creatures each time it is cast and must be recast each time your familiar dies since they aren't coming back. This would no doubt make for some amusing or awkward familiars roaming around if it were to happen.