Picking races...

Enverex · Post by **Enverex** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:01 am

Hi all, I am new to Avlis and haven't gotten around to picking HotU up yet so I can't play yet anyway, but I will be getting it in the next few days as I am dying to explore these interesting PWs.

The only thing that I am curious about at the moment is what race would be most appropriate for a Major Mage, Minor Cleric (I have no idea what levels I would be putting in to each, I just know I would have more in Mage than Cleric, possibly 60/40 or even 80/20). I was thinking standard Elf to start with, but I am also interested in the other sub-races and such. The reason I dwell on it so long is that I really can't stand doing something and spending a long time doing something, only to find I could be doing what I am currently doing, better, if I had chosen something else, even if the gain may be seen as insignificant by other people. For this reason, I am also not concerned if I have to make the race on another server first and explore there before coming to the world of Avlis to use a class nt creatable natively on Avlis itself.

A few generic Cleric questions now, but are they still restricted to their own little 'bashing' ethos? If so, do they have any ranged weapons available as they had slings in 2nd Ed, but I have not played a Cleric in NWN so I am unsure as to their usable categories.

I've also been reading through the forums trying to pick up on all the 'do's and 'don'ts' as there seem to be quite a lot so hopefully I have picked up enough to not annoy any DMs or other people when I start.

The background I have planned for my character allows for pretty much any race, so that won't be an issue.

Any other general advice on playing a Mage/Cleric would be appreciated as would any other general 'noob' advice that isn't in plain sight via the guides.

Thanks,
Ex

Arandil · Post by **Arandil** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:13 am

My main advice would be, don't worry about stats and how "good" or "uber" your PC build might be. RP considerations should come first, so for your mage cleric...
1) does he start off as mage or cleric - in which case, what causes him to want to pursue both paths?
2)which God will he worship? The obvious one is Andrinor ( I'm not a cleric expert, so might be wrong on this ). But there plenty of other possibilities.
3)Unless the god you choose is a racial deity ( i.e. one that favours a particular race ), then there is no most appropriate race really. So how do you visualise this character? Why does he study magic? Is he a violent sort, or a pacifist, or somewhere in between? These sort of questions should help you decide on race, IMO, rather than stats.
There are plenty of PCs on avlis with very non-uber PCs. Hope you have fun anyhow. Hope this didn't come across as an RP rant either, if so, apologies. BTW, when I choose race its usually elf 'cause I happen to be most comfortable playing them, regardless of the class.

Arandil

Dirk Cutlass · Post by **Dirk Cutlass** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:20 am

I've often thought of playing a mage/cleric, but never got around to doing it. I see a couple of good profiles:
1) the clever cleric, who has read too many books and dabbled in black arst (cleric/wizard)
2) the tribal shaaman, gets powers from a mixture of deities, spirit worship and sorcery (cleric/sorcerer)

Both have advantages and disadvantges. As for race, the tribal shaaman would be great to play as an orc, or kobold or goblin maybe? The other profile fits any race really.

BTW, if you are not familiar with the distinction between wizards and sorcerers (I saw you referred to 2nd edition rules, etc. - me too), then basically wizards use intelligence to gain magic (by hard studying and research), whereas sorcerers have inate magic (actually tied to the CHA stat) and "some believe they even have dragon or demon blood in their heritage".

Starslayer_D · Post by **Starslayer_D** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:27 am

Shameless commercial plug:
- The second deity obvious for a mage/cleric would be Angadar.

Advantages: Existing and active church in the playerbase
Disadvantages: Most characetrs immediately assume you're not to be trusted as cleric of Angadar...

*g* As cleric of Andrinor, you would be the first I heard off... and Andrinor isa bit chaotic.. last I heard he accidentially misplaced a few mageorders... wich are only part of his powerbase...

Enverex · Post by **Enverex** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:00 am

I am aware of Sorcerers but I am not to keen on them as it is the range of spells that draws me to magery in the first place. Being a Sorcerer basically defeats that purpose.

The character is someone who is interested in all forms of magical arts, arcane and divine and as such, has followed both paths to try and learn as much as possible to develop a very broad range of abilities to try and deal with every situation.... but that doesn't exactly always work...

I'm thinking it may be better to start off as a Cleric and level them equaly, but start doing Cleric every other turn instead, and then even less in Cleric leveling as the character is more interested in Mage spells as he doesn't like close combat and needs the more powerful ranged spells to actually do some damage (stats will indicate this).

Do you get ability points after 20th level or do they stop at that points? As I am not familier with anything over that due to not having HotU yet.

Khaelindra · Post by **Khaelindra** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:14 am

Starslayer_D wrote: Disadvantages: Most characetrs immediately assume you're not to be trusted as cleric of Angadar...

Which of course would have NOTHING to do with the fact that, besides the domain of Knowledge, the other domains of Angadar are Deceit and Trickery, right?!?

Naaaahhhhh!!!!!!!!!

On mage-cleric: your emphasis RP-wise should determine the ratio, tweaked for efficiency perhaps, but not what gives the coolest levels. A lvl 39 mage-1 cleric who is played like the high priest with some magical talent on the side may be very powerful, but is not very realistic.

On race: you sound like you'd hate to have an xp-penalty due to progressed insight in how you want to level, so i suggest taking ELF as race so you have flexibility in the progression of the two classes.

On (ranged) weapons: the NWN engine (and PnP AD&D 3.5 for that matter) don't work with weapon restrictions based on religious oaths anymore, except with druid. This means that you're only as limited as your feats make you. Cleric starts with simple weapons, but for one feat you can take martial weapons, allowing you to use any kind of bow. If you do not wish to expend a feat on weaponry, an also not take a class that gives you the martial weapon proficiency, then you can still use the sling as that's a simple weapon. As of recently, slings with the "mighty" ability are available, making them at least fair ranged weapons.

As for a god...your post gives me the feel of ehm....Aarilax. Strong focus on becoming strong and good at what you do. Aarilax can use some extra clerics too...

M.

Dralix · Post by **Dralix** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:24 am

Starslayer_D wrote:*g* As cleric of Andrinor, you would be the first I heard off...

There was one not too long ago, but I haven't seen her in a while ...

Enverex · Post by **Enverex** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:28 am

As I said, the balance is 60/40 towards the Mage, not the Cleric. Am I right in thinking that you can now multiclass with specialist Mages? As I normally play a Conjourer sacrificing Divination abilities, but now Necromancy is the opposing school to Divination, so that threw me, but yeah, if it is possible then I would end up being a Necro/Cleric, CN alignment. I'm not sure about Gods yet as I havn't read much about them, but I am trying to make it all fit in with my characters bio which was, obscenely cut down "wakes up here, doesn't remember who he is, thinks up a name for himself, feels a pull towards magic of all forms, but a strong pull to damaging magics in some sort of inane need for defence" blah blah blah. But yeah, I know what I mean

Khaelindra · Post by **Khaelindra** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:49 am

Enverex wrote: Do you get ability points after 20th level or do they stop at that points? As I am not familier with anything over that due to not having HotU yet.

1. Don't worry about what will happen after lvl 20...it will probably be 2005 before you get there.

2. Yes, above level 20 you keep getting stat points and general feats. Lvl 20 is "just another level" as far as that is concerned. Only thing you don't get after lvl 20 is BAB or saving throws according to class, those being replaced by a bonus of 1/2 levels for both attack and all saves regardless of class.

Enverex · Post by **Enverex** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:03 pm

It's not the matter of reaching level 20, it's planning for things past that in terms of pre-requisites regardless of how long that may be as things now will still affect it in terms of what classes I pick, etc.

Are there any races with + to INT and/or Wisdom, either native to Avlis or not?

Fifty · Post by **Fifty** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:19 pm

Orcs have +1 intelligence, but hate magic users. Being a wizard would make you an outcast among all other Orcs. (Not that that stopped me with one of my alts)

Enverex · Post by **Enverex** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:21 pm

I'm open to playing most races, but Orc wouldn't be one of them

Gairus · Post by **Gairus** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:38 pm

the other race with +1 int is the Drangonari.

The aasimar and tiefling from hala/rockhome would fit the bill (+2 int and wis respectively)... though then you're playing there and not here

KenLie · Post by **KenLie** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:40 pm

Gairus wrote:the other race with +1 int is the Drangonari.

The aasimar and tiefling from hala/rockhome would fit the bill (+2 int and wis respectively)... though then you're playing there and not here

+2 int with Aasimar? You sure about that?

Gairus · Post by **Gairus** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:43 pm

Backwards. Sorry.

Tieflings get int, aasimar get wisdom.

Khaelindra · Post by **Khaelindra** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:45 pm

Enverex wrote:It's not the matter of reaching level 20, it's planning for things past that in terms of pre-requisites regardless of how long that may be as things now will still affect it in terms of what classes I pick, etc.

In that case you'll be interested to know that all generic feats gained above level 20 (the ones you gain at lvl 21, 24, 27, 30, 33, 36 and 39) can be used to buy a statpoint of your choice...

Enverex · Post by **Enverex** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 9:45 pm

Tiefling seems a viable option. It also makes more sense for the backing. I would just have to explore Hala first, though the escape also fits well into the characters BIO, so that also won't be a problem. Anyway, now back to ordering HotU...

Oh, btw, does the Int modifier work on a fixed basis (i.e. Is the max INT of a normal creature 18, and doing this means that the highest it can ever go is 20) or do modifiers only affect the initial point placement allowing you to go two above the usual starting maximum in that ability?

Sorry, I'm not to familier with NWNs rules and generation information, and can't find any editors to make any mule characters to see how it actually works.

Gairus · Post by **Gairus** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 4:10 am

You can start with over 18 in stats.

I've started half-orcs with 20 str and my custom drangonari has 19 int.

Enverex · Post by **Enverex** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 8:24 am

Hmm, only issue I am trying to work out now is how to spend the points. As starting things high to start with costs more overall as it may cost 3 to raise 1 point, where as later when you get the extra points it only costs 1 to increase it regardless... but on the other hand, INT needs to be high anyway for the extra feats. Do any of the other stats affect level bonuses?

Jiian · Post by **Jiian** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:32 am

Intelligence only gets you more skill points, not feats. BTW a high wisdom does affect your will save (which will be fairly high regardless, due to your class choices)