Spell Renewal and pseudo-crashing

NightsMistress · Post by **NightsMistress** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:38 pm

Maybe it's just me but I've noticed some players who seem to crash a lot more than others. This may be coincidence or it may be because a "crash" gives you all your spells back. I have a work around for this that would reset spells to what you last had on the server (and yes I agree with potential arguments that it shouldn't carry over servers... it's a per server solution) and it takes care of the problem of clerics substituting healing spells with their normal spells.
Is it worth it trying to implement this? (is just a few scripts).

~NightsMistress

apandapion · Post by **apandapion** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:55 pm

What effects generated by spells does a pc lose when he loses connection and comes back? That list would determine my opinion on this issue. Summons are the only one I can think of...

If you lose connection, lose an effect you need, and then log back on and can't cast it again... well, that can block a lot of fun.

I'd be curious to see the code anyway, because I've been interested in how to manipulate spell slots through scripting for some time.

Khaelindra · Post by **Khaelindra** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:58 pm

I know on the CoA-server, upon logging you lose all memorised spells, but effects stay. It's apparently possible to code it so you always enter the game with "used" slots. That does punish real crashers too severely IMO though.

scribe · Post by **scribe** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:07 pm

I crash out more often than others, at least it seems to me. I don't know why, exactly -- it happens at transitions, mostly, or if a large group of characters becomes visible. (I don't think you are talking about me, btw.) But, in my experience, crashing out is pretty much always a pain in the ass. I can't imagine trying to use it to game the system, myself, since it is so disruptive to the story and the party.

Some people's computers -- mine -- are less stable than others'. Is this something you really suspect someone of? I'm sure the DMs could be alerted to it, and start watching the suspect's behavior. I wouldn't punish people -- me -- who experience a crash. It's already kinda embarrasing.

Tigg · Post by **Tigg** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:31 pm

It's a large exploit hole in the fabric of Avlis, and I'm quite sure that some people take advantage of it. I've personally brought it up before, though, and there was no response, so I'm guessing that the idea was to not punish those who do have legitimate crash issues. Let's face it, though, there's no way to prove whether someone really crashed or just logged, so 100% of the people would just say they have crash problems anyways.

chamalscuro · Post by **chamalscuro** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:56 pm

I probably have a NWN program crash about 1 in 4 play sessions. My laptop doesn't perform the way it used to, alas.

Yeah, it's nice to get your spells back after a crash. When I'm on a party adventure, I'll burn up half my spell slots buffing me and fellow party members. Since a crash drops all those buffs, I'd be cleaned out without the refresh coming after a crash relog.

It wouldn't even occur to me to crash myself just to replenish my spells. I regard planned spell use to be one of the challenges as a mage. Anybody who travels with me knows that my main Aissa is usually empty of spells at the end of a no-rest dungeon. At that point, I'm shepherding what few spells I have left, and am acting in a complete support role with heal kits, etc. I'm also mewling for a rest at that point.

If I crash, it is because I crashed. We don't all have race-car, custom-built, video game optimized computers. I'd like to upgrade, but it's not an option at this point.

PsiOmega · Post by **PsiOmega** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:34 am

Doesn't spells still remain active if just the client crash rather than the server and you log back in? I'm quite sure that's the case and if that's so I don't see the problem should this script be based on local variables (rather than being stored in a database).

You're not supposed to have all those extra spells anyway, accidental crash or not, and if it's the server that goes poff (still presuming any and all variables are local) then the variables will disappear as well, leaving you with all the spell slots as usual and the ability to re-buff or whatever you do with them.

Wouldn't mind having a look at those scripts in either case.

itsabughunt · Post by **itsabughunt** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:39 am

I've seen plenty of non-spellcasters who crash a lot too. I'm sure there are some who are doing it intentionally, but I personally doubt they are in the majority. I don't even play spellcasters so I don't really care I guess, but I think those sorts of scripts would really screw the honest folks who get dumped for no fault of their own.

chamalscuro · Post by **chamalscuro** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:05 am

PsiOmega wrote:Doesn't spells still remain active if just the client crash rather than the server and you log back in?

I've seen that happen literally once or twice, but it's so rare as to not be worth mentioning. I think weapon buffs still run due to their nature, but even that isn't reliable.

Frankly, I think a more productive direction would be working on those folks that use feat-based powers (psions, epic spellcasters) to restore them after a crash.

szabot · Post by **szabot** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:15 am

Any time I crash, I lose every spell effect. Not once have any remained.

Istahire · Post by **Istahire** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:33 am

I would be very careful of accusing someone of deliberately logging. Mostly, I see people crash out when something happens, usually a battle, in which case loggin out is very likely to get you smashed to the floor or even DP'ed. A script that takes care of the problem would be nice, as that would simply make an exploit of this kind impossible - but given that all spell-effects remain after a client-crash. Special effects like Bard Song are not replenished after a crash, so I don't see why the same can't be for spells.

Speaking of crashes - my new GF7900GT gives some texture "flickering" in foggy areas, and a lot more crashes than my old Radeon X800XL

Does any have a solution for this problem? I suspect it to be a driver/settings issue, but changing drivers doesn't seem to have any positive effect.

Tigg · Post by **Tigg** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:38 am

PsiOmega wrote:Doesn't spells still remain active if just the client crash rather than the server and you log back in? I'm quite sure that's the case <snip>

I'm quite sure that's the case too. As far as accusing someone, I've never done so, but given the large benefit of logging off/on for a spellcaster, and the patterns of 'crashing' I've seen from some people (i.e. tends to 'crash' right about when their spells are out deep in a dungeon, in one extreme case tended to 'crash' every time they finished buffing the party), let's just say I know.

chamalscuro · Post by **chamalscuro** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:34 am

Tigg wrote: ...in one extreme case tended to 'crash' every time they finished buffing the party...

Do buffs actually remain on others when the spellcaster logs out/crashes? Isn't that the same as the spellcaster resting, which cancels all previously cast spells?

szabot · Post by **szabot** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:16 am

Tigg wrote:
PsiOmega wrote:Doesn't spells still remain active if just the client crash rather than the server and you log back in? I'm quite sure that's the case <snip>
I'm quite sure that's the case too.

szabot wrote:Any time I crash, I lose every spell effect. Not once have any remained.

loki70 · Post by **loki70** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:19 am

NAV worm protection dumps NWN at times. But I do retain most of my buffs, depending on the cause of crash. There is also the fact that the servers sometimes will crash, which will drop all spell effects. Does the fix take account of that?

deejayvee · Post by **deejayvee** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:19 am

What happened on the couple of times I crashed with my cleric was that I lost all my buffs and the other people I had buffed kept them.

loki70 · Post by **loki70** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:22 am

deejayvee wrote:What happened on the couple of times I crashed with my cleric was that I lost all my buffs and the other people I had buffed kept them.

Lots of times I have crashed at the worst possible time, and logged on bleeding and completely unbuffed. Also, you lose all contested roles, and Dispel magic works remarkably well...

Tigg · Post by **Tigg** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:49 am

chamalscuro wrote:
Tigg wrote: ...in one extreme case tended to 'crash' every time they finished buffing the party...
Do buffs actually remain on others when the spellcaster logs out/crashes? Isn't that the same as the spellcaster resting, which cancels all previously cast spells?

Yeah, they remained, and then they'd have all their slots left for offensive magic. (needless to say it didn't take me long before I started avoiding this person.)

My character casts a few spells too, and the caster level is decently high. Unless it was towards the end of the duration, they're always still there when I log back on after a crash.. sometimes even when I've gone out for dinner and come back, heh.

p0m · Post by **p0m** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:52 am

I've never never lost any spell effects on a crash. I also keep a close eye on my slots too so I know how many 'real' quickslots I actually have to work with.

Though I've lost spells while using the windows client and not the linux one...

NightsMistress · Post by **NightsMistress** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:54 am

This is spooky. Like everyone else I crash sometimes but I've never lost spell effects. Buffs, weapon enchantments and so on remain and last the normal time or until I rest.

The method is pretty simple. Simply record the spell IDs in a "," seperated string as they are cast. Reset the string to null when the player rests. Whenever the player logs in and has a non-null string simply parse it and reduce the spell count for each spell cast.
The only trick is that healing spells cast by clerics should be saved at the end of the string. This takes care the times when they substitute healing spells for others.

girlysprite · Post by **girlysprite** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:46 am

I know city of arabel 'saves' the number of spells you still have, and you don't get full spells on return.
By the way, I am still buffed after a crash.

Paerin · Post by **Paerin** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:37 pm

I've played on server where you HP and your Spells are exactly the way when you logged out/crashed.

So if I used all my buffing spells but none of my offensive spells then immediately crashed I logged back in with the effects still on and the spells that I used unavailable to be cast until I rested.

I have no idea what they did to accomplish that though.

dougnoel · Post by **dougnoel** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:59 pm

Paerin wrote:I've played on server where you HP and your Spells are exactly the way when you logged out/crashed.

So if I used all my buffing spells but none of my offensive spells then immediately crashed I logged back in with the effects still on and the spells that I used unavailable to be cast until I rested.

I have no idea what they did to accomplish that though.

What was the name of the world? And is it still around?

NightsMistress · Post by **NightsMistress** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:17 pm

Paerin wrote:I've played on server where you HP and your Spells are exactly the way when you logged out/crashed.

So if I used all my buffing spells but none of my offensive spells then immediately crashed I logged back in with the effects still on and the spells that I used unavailable to be cast until I rested.

I have no idea what they did to accomplish that though.

That was in effect what I was suggesting we do. Only those spells you've cast would be lost. But if people are experiencing loss of buffs etc then it's perhaps best to leave the system as it stands.

Tigg · Post by **Tigg** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:25 pm

I think the vast majority of people don't lose buffs when logging/crashing, if they come back on during the duration of the spell. It seems strange to me... I've never lost buffs for that reason with any character, on any server, since NWN began.