Detecting invisible

loki70 · Post by **loki70** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:50 pm

Okay, I have a question. My char has a very high listen. He detects invisible creatures more often than not, and can pick most thieves of equal level (shadow dancers stump him still). So, the question is, can I identify someone my listening to them walk, breath, mutter, whatever if I have spent enough time around them. The engine allows me to do this, and there was some argument earlier (don't tell me to search it, as I am at work and curious, not at the game and have a critical issue). For instance, my char has spent some time around Isamu studying him. Isamu runs by invisible. Does his bone arm make noise? Is there a particular smell? Anything? Just curious, like I said.

Isengrim · Post by **Isengrim** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:43 pm

I'd say no, especially for the magically invisible creatures. In RL, you usually don't recognise people by their footsteps or sounds their clothes make, unless that's someone very close to you and you know the rythm of his steps and movement (my grandmother was able to recognise us, her family, by the sound of our footsteps).
Smell? It's "listen" check, not "smell" check...

maybe if you are polymorphed into a dog or umber hulk or Orleron wrote that your character race has an excellent smell... but not otherwise.

So as long as that person doesn't have some particularities (maybe, as you said, Isamu's bone arm) or it's your IC spouse/best friend, you shouldn't be able to recognize him/her.

That's what I think...

Dirk Cutlass · Post by **Dirk Cutlass** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:52 pm

This is best asked in "Ask the Team" if you want a definitive answer, rather than 100 different views. In fact, I think it may have already been asked there.

loki70 · Post by **loki70** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:05 pm

Yeah, Dirk, I thought about the Ask The Team forum, but I figured I would save the team the time and effort of erasing all of the post by non-team members. That and I wanted honest opinions of other players. Other than that, consider this a bump of the old thread.

Serineth Swiftpaw · Post by **Serineth Swiftpaw** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:28 pm

Personally I wouldn't go with smell because it has way too many flaws. The only things I really assume are the creatures size due to the harshness of the footsteps, what sort of thing it is (does it sound like it has two legs or four?) and that something is there. I wouldn't go any further than that.

Dirk Cutlass · Post by **Dirk Cutlass** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:17 pm

loki70 wrote:Yeah, Dirk, I thought about the Ask The Team forum, but I figured I would save the team the time and effort of erasing all of the post by non-team members. That and I wanted honest opinions of other players. Other than that, consider this a bump of the old thread.

OK, then unless they actually spoke to you (and it was someone you knew very well) then I would say that it would not be able to recognise them at all. However, you may be able to tell race (possibly), gender and accent (e.g. region of Avlis they're from).

Sure, it is possible to think of a person with such highly toned senses that they can recognise someone from smell or sound alone or something (think of blind people, or people lacking one sense, it is often compenstated by much better "other" senses). However, such a skill or ability does not exist in NWN or Avlis, and so pretending it does would be text-book cheesing.

Sojan · Post by **Sojan** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:43 pm

I just want to add this...having a very high bonus in listen check...let say a 36 bonus on your check....is damn high! So I guess that it means the character has a special gift once it has reach that high. Like...as the exemple above, a blind person would be very good at it because it puts all her energy to it all his/her life. The same as with a high bonus on a skill. I doubt that anyone in the real world can cast a fireball...that means you can't really compare every skills with the RL.
So I guess if you are able to see invisible creature because of a real high listen check, then yes you should be able to distinguish the one from any other and thus recognizing the person.

That is my opinion and is stated as that too

VETT SCALES L7 · Post by **VETT SCALES L7** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:49 pm

This has been gone over before. You cannot ID an invis person unless you can see invisible or they have spoken to you in their normal voice. All that you can tell is something is there, probably a person magically hidden.

loki70 · Post by **loki70** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 7:14 pm

So, if I was the suspicious (can't spell it), I could attack anyone around me that was invisible. You know, just for safety's sake.

Okay, to clarify, I am not in the market for a way to cheese, as Dirk thinks, nor am I asking to find a way around an annoying spell (I nearly DP'ed an invisible character a while back because he was in the wrong area playing tricks). What I am asking is if I were to go invisible, and say stand in a corner, cloaked and coiled, in say a top secret meeting that I had happened to get into, then no one would ever be able to identify me? I can sit in a room backed with high level fighters, or a shodaow dirk convention, and no one would know that it is me if I affect a dwarven accent, though a dwarf outweighs my character by a good 100 pounds? Don't know, just seems there is a bit too much realism there. Anyway, team says no, so it is no. I was, like I said, just curious.

DanishPastry · Post by **DanishPastry** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 7:25 pm

loki70 wrote: What I am asking is if I were to go invisible, and say stand in a corner, cloaked and coiled, in say a top secret meeting that I had happened to get into, then no one would ever be able to identify me? I can sit in a room backed with high level fighters, or a shadow dirk convention, and no one would know that it is me if I affect a dwarven accent, though a dwarf outweighs my character by a good 100 pounds?

If you eavesdrop on high level fighters or shadow dirks, they'd probably dispel your invis or quaff a potion of sight unseen, as soon as they heard you...

...and then you'd have a lot of explaining to do.

loki70 · Post by **loki70** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 7:37 pm

DanishPastry wrote:
loki70 wrote: What I am asking is if I were to go invisible, and say stand in a corner, cloaked and coiled, in say a top secret meeting that I had happened to get into, then no one would ever be able to identify me? I can sit in a room backed with high level fighters, or a shadow dirk convention, and no one would know that it is me if I affect a dwarven accent, though a dwarf outweighs my character by a good 100 pounds?
If you eavesdrop on high level fighters or shadow dirks, they'd probably dispel your invis or quaff a potion of sight unseen, as soon as they heard you... ...and then you'd have a lot of explaining to do.

Nah, that's what dimension door is for.

The point of all this is that players are using invisibility and, for the most part, just being plain annoying. Sorry, but being taunted by an invisible person to me is just not fun. I can't IC attack them, since they aren't breaking any laws or attacking innocents. It just seems that somewhere along the line this 2nd level spell became way too powerful.

Lucien · Post by **Lucien** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:02 pm

loki70 wrote:The point of all this is that players are using invisibility and, for the most part, just being plain annoying. Sorry, but being taunted by an invisible person to me is just not fun.

Easily countered by the potion mentioned above. It does seem, however, that if your being taunted is a recurring theme, you should address the underlying issues instead of worrying about being taunted by invisible people.

I can't IC attack them, since they aren't breaking any laws or attacking innocents.

Really? Since when?

If your PC gets frustrated enough to attack them, then you damn well should. Someone once posted something very sage on the boards (kombinat or Wrath, maybe? Can't recall), which I will paraphrase here:

On Avlis, there is no real sense in threatening someone. Respond to their actions with actions, not words or complaints.

If you're not griefing them--which is an entirely different issue altogether--just be prepared for the consequences ICly. If you don't want to deal with the consequences, then that's your choice, not their responsibility.

Recently, my PC insulted someone very powerful, because that's what he does. I got turned to stone without warning. That was a perfectly legitimate, justified, and well-roleplayed response to my actions. And if I want to do something about it, I'll use action, not mere words.

It just seems that somewhere along the line this 2nd level spell became way too powerful.

See the point about potions above. I think they may even be craftable.

DanishPastry · Post by **DanishPastry** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:06 pm

loki70 wrote: Nah, that's what dimension door is for. The point of all this is that players are using invisibility and, for the most part, just being plain annoying. Sorry, but being taunted by an invisible person to me is just not fun. I can't IC attack them, since they aren't breaking any laws or attacking innocents. It just seems that somewhere along the line this 2nd level spell became way too powerful.

People should learn that actions have consequenses.

Annoying invis guy -> Potion of Sight Unseen + SMACK

All in the spirit of good IC RP