Morning stars

gwydion2 · Post by **gwydion2** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 3:38 pm

I wasn't sure about this.

Is a morningstar a Bludgeoning weapon or is it a Bludgeoning / pierce weapon? I could find a friend with an archers belt and test it but if anyone knows tell.

Aerill · Post by **Aerill** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 4:08 pm

I think in NWN it's both and is being resisted by both.

You can test it on Aerill though

gwydion2 · Post by **gwydion2** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 4:26 pm

"Hello my dear. Do you mind if I hit you over the head with my morning star?"

*smiles and looks innocent*

VETT SCALES L7 · Post by **VETT SCALES L7** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 4:49 pm

It is both and fully resisted by blunt or piercer damage resistance.

Aldinvineda · Post by **Aldinvineda** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 7:26 pm

Is it hard coded?

Heronimous Fox · Post by **Heronimous Fox** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 7:32 pm

Its very useful for a certain type of xxxxx though.

Nob · Post by **Nob** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 8:21 pm

IIRC the last CoPaP hak update was done to change this.

So swords are all now just plain slashing, morning stars are simply bludgeoning and halberds are slashing.

dougnoel · Post by **dougnoel** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 3:55 pm

Nob wrote:IIRC the last CoPaP hak update was done to change this.

So swords are all now just plain slashing, morning stars are simply bludgeoning and halberds are slashing.

I forgot about morning stars...so maybe next hak update.

mortzestus · Post by **mortzestus** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 5:09 pm

Wow, i had no idea you finally implemented this. Superb!

However, i checked in a mod with the Avlis haks and apparently, the morningstar already deals just bludgeoning damage instead of bludgeoning and piercing. What's more, it's also like that in standard NWN so i guess that Bioware changed it a while ago (even though the in-game description still says bludgeoning/piercing).

Dirk Cutlass · Post by **Dirk Cutlass** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 10:50 pm

dougnoel wrote:
Nob wrote:IIRC the last CoPaP hak update was done to change this.

So swords are all now just plain slashing, morning stars are simply bludgeoning and halberds are slashing.
I forgot about morning stars...so maybe next hak update.

Hey glad you did this - last I heard it was just a possibility, didn't know you'd implemented. Shame you missed morning stars though

mortzestus · Post by **mortzestus** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:46 pm

Dirk Cutlass wrote:
dougnoel wrote:
Nob wrote:IIRC the last CoPaP hak update was done to change this.

So swords are all now just plain slashing, morning stars are simply bludgeoning and halberds are slashing.
I forgot about morning stars...so maybe next hak update.
Hey glad you did this - last I heard it was just a possibility, didn't know you'd implemented. Shame you missed morning stars though

Bioware has changed morningstars and they are bludgeoning only now, seriously. No need for further fixes for them.

Heronimous Fox · Post by **Heronimous Fox** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 7:57 am

OK....stupid question....why only bludgeoning?

The whole point of a morning star is its stabby and bashy......liartes with a dagger in one hand and cosh in another.......else w?tf use it!!!

Can someone explain why the spikes on a morning star in bioware are blunt!

mortzestus · Post by **mortzestus** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 8:21 am

Heronimous Fox wrote:OK....stupid question....why only bludgeoning?

The whole point of a morning star is its stabby and bashy......liartes with a dagger in one hand and cosh in another.......else w?tf use it!!!

Can someone explain why the spikes on a morning star in bioware are blunt!

Because due to the way damage resistances work in NWN, weapons that deal two types of damage are the very worst shit you could ever use, specially in CvC. Giving all weapons a single damage type is a huge improvement, even though fixing damage resistances would be even better.

Heronimous Fox · Post by **Heronimous Fox** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 8:48 am

err...so what?....this is not a CvC place it just happens to have CvC

......Im generally at the wrong end of halbard cvc but doesnt bother me.....as it has a down side (no shield)

......morning star similarly......few take it as a weapon specialisation generally because the highish weapon weight+mid damage+mid critical range arent that good when compared with other types weapons.

Thinking about this its now a worthless to carry as a back up weapon, and may as well be tossed. Another fighter specialism fecked up, lets all be mages it'll make things easier!

mortzestus · Post by **mortzestus** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:10 am

Uh, i never said that this was a case of CvC balance, just mentioned that bit as another thing on top of the main reason i mentioned (damage resistances not working properly). So i don't really know what you mean but anyway:

To make it clear, giving weapons one single type of damage is not nerfing them, it's just a way of bypassing a known NWN bug, a bug that affected a lot of melee PCs (basically all sword users, and i daresay that most STR fighter types use them so that's a large chunk of the melee player base). That is not a CvC issue but it affected all combat, of course including CvC.

Also, take into account that morningstars are simple weapons. Sure that a morningstar is a piece of shit compared to a warhammer but a cleric without martial proficiency can use the former and not the latter.

EDIT:

Heronimous Fox wrote:Thinking about this its now a worthless to carry as a back up weapon, and may as well be tossed. Another fighter specialism fecked up, lets all be mages it'll make things easier!

I'm pretty sure you are missing how this worked before the changes. Imagine that Bob is using a scythe and is fighting two critters. One of the enemies resists slashing and the other one resists piercing, so as per the 3.0 rules Bob should be able to bypass both types of damage resistance with his scythe (slashing/piercing weapon). However, in NWN both resistances would apply and both monsters would resist Bob's damage when none should have been able to. Making scythes slashing only is just a way to fix this partially since now damage resistance to piercing won't work against it.

EDIT 2: There's more info about this in the "I like swords" thread in the Fighter forums. I really fail to see how any fighter player would think that making weapons to be resisted by one type of DR instead of two types is making things worse for warriors.

Heronimous Fox · Post by **Heronimous Fox** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 5:52 pm

mortzestus wrote:Uh, i never said that this was a case of CvC balance, just mentioned that bit as another thing on top of the main reason i mentioned (damage resistances not working properly). So i don't really know what you mean but anyway:

My thoughts are that by changing something to compensate for a bioware bug is wrong IMHO.

To make it clear, giving weapons one single type of damage is not nerfing them, it's just a way of bypassing a known NWN bug, a bug that affected a lot of melee PCs (basically all sword users, and i daresay that most STR fighter types use them so that's a large chunk of the melee player base). That is not a CvC issue but it affected all combat, of course including CvC.

Also, take into account that morningstars are simple weapons. Sure that a morningstar is a piece of shit compared to a warhammer but a cleric without martial proficiency can use the former and not the latter.

Had forgotten that they are classified by Bioware as a simple weapon, which always amazed me but thats another argument, as IMHO is harder to use than a hammer or mace.

Heronimous Fox wrote:Thinking about this its now a worthless to carry as a back up weapon, and may as well be tossed. Another fighter specialism fecked up, lets all be mages it'll make things easier!
I'm pretty sure you are missing how this worked before the changes. Imagine that Bob is using a scythe and is fighting two critters. One of the enemies resists slashing and the other one resists piercing, so as per the 3.0 rules Bob should be able to bypass both types of damage resistance with his scythe (slashing/piercing weapon). However, in NWN both resistances would apply and both monsters would resist Bob's damage when none should have been able to. Making scythes slashing only is just a way to fix this partially since now damage resistance to piercing won't work against it.

[/quote]

Agree on this but nerfing weapons to compensate for a bug seems poor but i can agree on the overall need for a compensating factor.....I just dont like it.

EDIT 2: There's more info about this in the "I like swords" thread in the Fighter forums. I really fail to see how any fighter player would think that making weapons to be resisted by one type of DR instead of two types is making things worse for warriors.

Think were talking at cross purposes, the whole point of these weapons is that their weakness is compensated by negating these dr types, which in my opinion adds more colour to the game.