Death upon Resting

Morgoth · Post by **Morgoth** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:02 pm

This has been tested with NightHawk4 and me. We would like to know if this is a bug and if it?s worth fixing.

A Character bluffed with Endurance and an Ioun Stone that give +2 to Con is reduced in HP below the number of HP granted by the buffs. Then goes to rest to regain HP. upon resting you lose the buffs before HP Regain. You die...

Jeffi0 · Post by **Jeffi0** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:06 pm

It's always been this way... You just have to get used to it. After it happens a few times, you'll start to be more careful.

It does make sense, to me.

Nob · Post by **Nob** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:06 pm

Not a bug, and rather intentional. Since these buffs are temporary boosts to your constitution, it means anything you sustained in the meantime was something that would have killed you anyway, once that wears off...

Morgoth · Post by **Morgoth** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:21 pm

I was just thinking for a high level character to cast the buff if it lasts longer then the resting time they should not die. ie cast the buff just before sleeping to ensure that you dont die while you regain. This seems to be a problem encountered later in the game as each level adds to the zone in which this "death" can happen but at the same time the higher levels buffs should last through your sleep

Croton · Post by **Croton** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:24 pm

If you have enough HP to cast the buff before sleeping, then why would you cast the buff?

Vanor · Post by **Vanor** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:38 pm

This is completely according to PnP rules in some cases, in others it's not.

A barbarian rage or anything that raises your con, when it wears off, you lose HP's accordingly and can die from it. This is logical, as you are losing an increase in your con. Ioun stones are a little different. They shouldn't deactivate when you rest, but only when you unequip them.

But no matter how well it fits into PnP rules, there isn't anything that can be done about it.

Avoiding it is rather simple... Make sure you aren't so close to death that the hp's lost will kill you. Normally a cure light or cure mod potion should be enough.

Jordicus · Post by **Jordicus** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:46 pm

Vanor wrote: Ioun stones are a little different. They shouldn't deactivate when you rest, but only when you unequip them.

that is true in PnP, but in NWN, the Iuon Stone is technically implemented as a spell-like effect so it would wear off when the PC rests.

Morgoth · Post by **Morgoth** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:48 pm

If you have the buffs on and rest it automatically turns them off even if there is some time remaining on those buffs... enough time to regain some hp and possibly move you out of the danger zone. the point is I would like to see buffs last the indented time they are suppose to even if you do rest.

But now this seems not a bug so much as a discussion on the way magic works. Can Someone move this to an appropriate place?

_LuCkY_ · Post by **_LuCkY_** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:53 pm

Jordicus wrote:that is true in PnP, but in NWN, the Iuon Stone is technically implemented as a spell-like effect so it would wear off when the PC rests.

Some spell effects do seem to last ~during~ your rest and wear of when the rest is finished. From my experiences this seems to be happening if the spell is casted on you by another mage, by epic spells (ie mage armour and epic warding remain casted on you during your rest) and spells such as flame weapon, GMW, which are casted on an item instead of you. Is it not possible make it so those effects wear off when your rest is finished instead of when its initiated as well?

Vanor · Post by **Vanor** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:54 pm

Morgoth wrote:Can Someone move this to an appropriate place?

Moved it to the NWN general discussion.

Vanor · Post by **Vanor** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:58 pm

Jordicus wrote:that is true in PnP, but in NWN, the Iuon Stone is technically implemented as a spell-like effect so it would wear off when the PC rests.

Quite true, I was speaking of how it worked in PnP... I suppose it would of worked more like PnP, if they had been able to add an equipment slot. But that doesn't seem to be worth the effort it would take to me.

_LuCkY_ wrote:Some spell effects do seem to last ~during~ your rest and wear of when the rest is finished.

I've noticed that offten spells cast on my PC by other PC's, wear off not when I rest but when they do.

Is it not possible make it so those effects wear off when your rest is finished instead of when its initiated as well?

Idealy stat buffs should only wear off when the timer runs out, and no other time. But I don't know if there is anything we can do about this or not.

Jordicus · Post by **Jordicus** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 9:04 pm

Vanor wrote:Idealy stat buffs should only wear off when the timer runs out, and no other time. But I don't know if there is anything we can do about this or not.

but that's not even true in PnP is it? remember in PnP the rest period is an 8 hour time period during which a spellcaster must memorize his spells or spend time in meditation or praying to his god...

Morgoth · Post by **Morgoth** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 9:09 pm

Moved it to the NWN general discussion.

thank you

Idealy stat buffs should only wear off when the timer runs out, and no other time. But I don't know if there is anything we can do about this or not.

I agree and would like to see something like this somewhere down the road

Vanor · Post by **Vanor** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 9:14 pm

Jordicus wrote:but that's not even true in PnP is it?

Hmm I could be wrong, but as far as I know yes they stay in effect even when the PC is sleeping. There is nothing in the description that states it should go away for any other reason then the duration running out.

This how I understand it. Rather then deal with making a list of what spell effects would be removed on a rest, Bioware simply has all spell effects cleared with a PC rests. Be they good or bad, rest clears all spell effects as far as I know.

This is I believe hard coded into the eng and is not something we can alter... But I've been wrong about that before.

Titanium Dragon · Post by **Titanium Dragon** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 9:29 pm

Vanor wrote:
Jordicus wrote:but that's not even true in PnP is it?
Hmm I could be wrong, but as far as I know yes they stay in effect even when the PC is sleeping. There is nothing in the description that states it should go away for any other reason then the duration running out.

This how I understand it. Rather then deal with making a list of what spell effects would be removed on a rest, Bioware simply has all spell effects cleared with a PC rests. Be they good or bad, rest clears all spell effects as far as I know.

This is I believe hard coded into the eng and is not something we can alter... But I've been wrong about that before.

You probably don't want to alter it either. In PnP, a day lasts 24 hours. In NWN, it lasts 4 IC hours - that's how long it takes for a rest cycle. I mean, the road goes two ways folks. If you want to only rest once every 24 hours, then sure, by all means allow spells to last over rest periods. I don't think you want that though.

Dralix · Post by **Dralix** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 9:37 pm

Vanor wrote:Rather then deal with making a list of what spell effects would be removed on a rest, Bioware simply has all spell effects cleared with a PC rests. Be they good or bad, rest clears all spell effects as far as I know.

Strength decreases from poison seem to be removed after rest. I assumed they were implemented like spell effects.

sarek88 · Post by **sarek88** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:12 am

I think this goes for shapeshifting too

If a druid turns into a bear and is brought down to like 10 hp and then his form wears off, he will be killed

Kind of sucks for shifters and stuff, but I guess it makes sense

MondoPotato · Post by **MondoPotato** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 2:03 am

The same does go for shifting. Once you rest, if your Hp is too low you die. It is annoying, especially considering when you are shapeshifted you can't use any healing kits or potions or spells to save yourself.

Khaelindra · Post by **Khaelindra** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 8:25 am

croton wrote:If you have enough HP to cast the buff before sleeping, then why would you cast the buff?

Because your original buff is scheduled to wear off during your sleep?

Some general points:

* In PnP the buff always lasts the duration, regardless of sleeping. It's a common trick to cast extended buffs before you go to sleep, regain your spells and enter into combat in the morning, having buffs from the previous evening still active AND having a full spell complement.

* If you start to rest, all ongoing spells and spell-like effects (like stoning of others and active iown stone around you) caused by you are cancelled.

* If you finish resting, all effects on you are reset, in effect cancelling all spells cast by others on you and removing all temporary stat damage. Level Drain is exempt and stays until restored.

* If you log off, your spells are not cancelled for either your character or others. In effect, the timer simply keeps counting on your server-side saved character.

* If you rest while still in shifted form, returning to original form in the process, the re-activation of your items (which were inactive in shifted form) comes AFTER your spell-effects are cancelled. This means that for fraction of a second you did not have the stat-buff AND did not have active items, possibly causing you to lose bonus-spells. If you have items giving stat-bonus that results in additional bonus-spells, shift back into normal form BEFORE resting.

* Your spells can be changed even while resting, as long as the spell-level hasn't been regained yet.

Cheers!

M.

Cacuus · Post by **Cacuus** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:35 pm

try carrying some healing kits, there cheap.

Vanor · Post by **Vanor** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 2:41 pm

Titanium Dragon wrote:You probably don't want to alter it either. In PnP, a day lasts 24 hours. In NWN, it lasts 4 IC hours - that's how long it takes for a rest cycle.

Well only sort of. A IC day on Avlis is 24 hours. It lasts 96 real life min's. You can rest once every 4 IC hours in NWN, as opposed to how ever offten the DM lets you in PnP.

However you do bring up a good point, if spells were to last though a rest period, the 8 hours you are supposed to rest for would need to be accounted for.

Malathyre · Post by **Malathyre** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:10 pm

MondoPotato wrote:The same does go for shifting. Once you rest, if your Hp is too low you die. It is annoying, especially considering when you are shapeshifted you can't use any healing kits or potions or spells to save yourself.

Not true, all forms should be able to use potions now. You can't using healing kits, no, but you can use potions.