Discouraging PCs from mid-combat wardrobe changes

keikobad · Post by **keikobad** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 7:56 pm

Georg Zeller wrote:Some DMs have reported that there has been a lot of lag lately due to people trying to exploit a bug that is related to fast switching of certain items in order to get more actions - this can cause a significant amount of events and network messages to be triggered and will degrade the performance for everyone on the server. If you think this might be the case, a DelayCommand(0.0,ClearAllActions(TRUE) in the OnEquip script, limited to PCs only will cure this until we release a fix for the problem (through it will make everyone who changes an item in combat flatfooted, might be realistic, but not necessarily nice - limiting this behavior to people DMs find suspicious and flag with a variable might be more sensible).

Maybe not practical, but I liked the idea.

Titanium Dragon · Post by **Titanium Dragon** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 8:08 pm

No more switching amulets, taking off your belt, putting on a new pair of gloves, switching rings, or taking off and putting off cloaks for people now.

Bioware: 1
Costume Partiers: 0

Chasman · Post by **Chasman** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 8:10 pm

Oh yeah.

Mid combat belt changes are some of the worst things a person can do. Also add bracers, helmets and boots to that list of " Cheese Changes ".

Aloro · Post by **Aloro** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 8:15 pm

We've been talking about implementing a delay for costume changes - it isn't supposed to be instantaneous anyhow.

It's on The List.

- Aloro

Starslayer_D · Post by **Starslayer_D** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 8:17 pm

Personally, if I have an item wich prevents me from taking 4 * 20 pts of damage each round, multiplied by 9 attacking npc'y, i would be insane not to use it.

Fuzz · Post by **Fuzz** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 8:20 pm

Starslayer_D wrote:Personally, if I have an item wich prevents me from taking 4 * 20 pts of damage each round, multiplied by 9 attacking npc'y, i would be insane not to use it.

So plan ahead.

Mages do it.
Holy crap... I just complimented mages!

GreyLynx · Post by **GreyLynx** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 8:37 pm

It's not a question of insane or not, just whether it's a bit OOC to take off a belt and put a new one on while surrounded by mercs that are pounding you. It'd be cool if the game mechanics enforced a non-instantaneous wardrobe change, which I'll admit I am periodically guilty of.

keikobad · Post by **keikobad** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 8:38 pm

All that script it does is cause the PC changing items to become flat-footed (disengage from combat, stop casting spells if you were in the middle of casting one).

So, don't worry-- they aren't about to make it impossible for you to change items in mid-combat. Just discourage you from changing items every round.

Also, Bioware's fix might not do anything like that. They aren't interested in stopping or discouraging people form switching items in combat, just fixing the bug that gets them extra attacks if they do it a lot.

Vroshgrak · Post by **Vroshgrak** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 8:44 pm

switching belts every round gets punished, switching weapons gets punished. Don't do something half assed. All or nothing.

Aloro · Post by **Aloro** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 9:03 pm

keikobad wrote:All that script it does is cause the PC changing items to become flat-footed (disengage from combat, stop casting spells if you were in the middle of casting one).

So, don't worry-- they aren't about to make it impossible for you to change items in mid-combat. Just discourage you from changing items every round.

Also, Bioware's fix might not do anything like that. They aren't interested in stopping or discouraging people form switching items in combat, just fixing the bug that gets them extra attacks if they do it a lot.

FYI, we aren't necessarily going to implement BW's suggestion... though it is likely we will do something to affect how people change costumes (armor, belts, etc) during combat. This "something" is likely to be in the nature of a delay.

- Aloro

Nob · Post by **Nob** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 9:15 pm

If this is the case, any chance of implementing the quickdraw feat?

Would be nice if those who don't simply run around with their sword out at the slightest hint of danger could take a method to compensate for that.

But probably too much trouble.

Starslayer_D · Post by **Starslayer_D** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 10:15 pm

and how am i supposed to take the feat at a month or more a level? Just asking... would have been nice to have, but not possible to take it that easely.

Brick · Post by **Brick** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 10:28 pm

It could be made a weaponmaster feat/ability. Makes a weak class slightly better, and more importantly, makes the class stand out from the normal fighter a bit more. It could even be made to only work with the weapon of choice.

Nob · Post by **Nob** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 10:34 pm

Brick wrote:It could be made a weaponmaster feat/ability. Makes a weak class slightly better, and more importantly, makes the class stand out from the normal fighter a bit more. It could even be made to only work with the weapon of choice.

I really like that idea.

Could we pleaaaaaaaaaaaase have that? pretty pretty pretty please?

Be a good thing to simply add to the utility of weapon of choice.[/b]

Aloro · Post by **Aloro** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 10:45 pm

Errr... folks, I didn't say anything about delays equipping weapons, just costumes. In PnP D&D, it takes quite a while to change out your armor, while you can draw a weapon as a partial action. So I doubt there's be any need for the quickdraw feat.

It's always possible that a delay in equipping weapons might be decided upon, but that is not part of the same discussion, AFAIK. One thing at a time.

- Aloro

makeshiftwings · Post by **makeshiftwings** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 10:56 pm

One server I play on has implemented Armor Equip Times, which works pretty well. It's similar to pnp armor equip times... when you first put on a suit of armor, your AC is penalized so that you're effectively getting 0 AC from the armor, then as a few seconds go by and your character is doing this funky emote, your AC rises until you have fully equipped your armor. Light armor / robes take only a second to put on; full plate takes quite a few seconds. You can break out of the emote and enter combat or run around early, but your AC will be penalized until you take the time to stop and re-equip the armor and let the full emote play out. (Similar to "donning hastily" in pnp.)

Khaelindra · Post by **Khaelindra** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:13 am

makeshiftwings wrote:One server I play on has implemented Armor Equip Times, which works pretty well. It's similar to pnp armor equip times... when you first put on a suit of armor, your AC is penalized so that you're effectively getting 0 AC from the armor, then as a few seconds go by and your character is doing this funky emote, your AC rises until you have fully equipped your armor. Light armor / robes take only a second to put on; full plate takes quite a few seconds. You can break out of the emote and enter combat or run around early, but your AC will be penalized until you take the time to stop and re-equip the armor and let the full emote play out. (Similar to "donning hastily" in pnp.)

Sounds cool...i can just envision the scarsely-clad knight in his AC 2 fullplate hopping around with a half-fastened leg-brace...

Seriously, as this is a RP-server, do get this delay thing in for everything nor normally switched on a whim (which is all equipment except weapons afaiac).

The switching for extra attacks is exploiting anyway, so there's no discussion about that, but having rings on quickslots to get the right type of resistance and switching them as you see the spells being cast while at the same time being in melee is also not very IC i think.

Personally, if I have an item wich prevents me from taking 4 * 20 pts of damage each round, multiplied by 9 attacking npc'y, i would be insane not to use it.

Correct, but it would not be realistic to switch your greater swordsman belt for a greater archers belt every time you see an arrow coming, then switch back, correct? If you get into a fight with a horde of dwarven mercs, it's realistic to hastily don your Brawlers Belt before they reach you (or try to

), and one delay should be in order and shouldn't be the death of you too. It's the constant flipping by exploiting the fact that AoO are not implemented for equipment switching that are the problem.

Heronimous Fox · Post by **Heronimous Fox** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 8:23 am

You can still equip a weapon out of a bag if its in a quick slot....also items....largus cheesus to me.

Maybe if you have something in both hands it should be impossible to open a bag......

....can we implement a time delay or some penalty (flat footed...attack of oportunity... - to ac...or something) to opening a bag. It takes me long enough to find the right one sometimes, but i have opened a bag in combat before, with no penalty. Yes my name is Edam.

Scurvy_Platypus · Post by **Scurvy_Platypus** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 11:49 am

Can we go a week without somebody requesting something be modified in the NWN game because it doesn't match 3E PnP or people's ideas of "realistic"?

KinX · Post by **KinX** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 11:57 am

Scurvy_Platypus wrote:Can we go a week without somebody requesting something be modified in the NWN game because it doesn't match 3E PnP or people's ideas of "realistic"?

no

Comick · Post by **Comick** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 12:03 pm

KinX wrote:
Scurvy_Platypus wrote:Can we go a week without somebody requesting something be modified in the NWN game because it doesn't match 3E PnP or people's ideas of "realistic"?
no

*Casts a Silence spell on KinX*

Heronimous Fox · Post by **Heronimous Fox** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 12:08 pm

Some'us mayn'st not nay tis possible, mayn't be wantid by them lordsh'ps in't team.

Gently prod us, nay skewer us with thine beaver spear oh scuvy one.

Baggie · Post by **Baggie** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 12:57 pm

Heronimous Fox wrote: Gently prod us, nay skewer us with thine beaver spear oh scuvy one.

LOL!

Now that's an offer you can't refuse!!!!!

WrathOG777 · Post by **WrathOG777** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:08 pm

People actualy do that?

I have bandages in a slot, that is it.

If I equip my weapon, I open up the inventory, look through pages to find it, grab it from my pack, and place it in the hand manualy. Same goes for armor, helm, sheild etc etc.

There is definately nothing quick about me finding a potion or somethign in a bag to drink.

Arandil · Post by **Arandil** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:14 pm

Mages tend to quickslot less equipment than fighters, as mages quickslots fill up with spells rather rapidly.