Question Concerning Epic Feats

Tharliss · Post by **Tharliss** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 6:48 pm

Okay, it's a long ways off before I can take any Epic Feats, but I do have a question:

The manual says that you recieve a +2 to-hit with Epic Weapon Focus and a +4 to damage with Epic Weapon Specialization. Does this "stack" with the bonuses from regular weapon focus and specialization, for overall pluses of +3 to-hit and +6 to damage with that weapon?

Or is it just an additional +1, +2 for an overall total of +2, +4?

Thanks in advance!

Nob · Post by **Nob** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 6:52 pm

They're unnamed bonuses, so they stack.

WrathOG777 · Post by **WrathOG777** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 10:31 pm

Is that answer your thoughts, or a verified in game testing of exactly how it really works?

Nob · Post by **Nob** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 10:38 pm

Tested in-game.

Level 28 build of Ayren with epic weapon focus and epic weapon spec has a +3 bonus to attacks and +6 to damage with a rapier.

Tharliss · Post by **Tharliss** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 11:45 pm

Nob wrote:Tested in-game.

Level 28 build of Ayren with epic weapon focus and epic weapon spec has a +3 bonus to attacks and +6 to damage with a rapier.

Very cool. Thanks Nob!

Tharliss · Post by **Tharliss** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 3:21 pm

Okay...another question for someone bored at work:

Epic Dodge is listed as a possible feat in the book that comes with HoTU. Yet this feat is not listed on the resource websites out there for NWN that I typically use.

Is this feat in the game, or did Bioware leave it out at the last minute? If it IS in, anyone have any thoughts or comments? Being able to ignore the first, and therefore the most dangerous, attack each round seems pretty handy.

TheElvenKing · Post by **TheElvenKing** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 3:24 pm

Tharliss wrote:Okay...another question for someone bored at work:

Epic Dodge is listed as a possible feat in the book that comes with HoTU. Yet this feat is not listed on the resource websites out there for NWN that I typically use.

Is this feat in the game, or did Bioware leave it out at the last minute? If it IS in, anyone have any thoughts or comments? Being able to ignore the first, and therefore the most dangerous, attack each round seems pretty handy.

Yes, it IS in HotU. Providing you get your base Dexterity high enough and have the right prereqs, it is there for the taking... enjoy!

Fuzz · Post by **Fuzz** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 5:47 pm

Just remember it's only the first attack of the round, so if 3 Half-elven bandits are attacking you 3x a round each, only the first attack of the one that got the highest initiative roll is dodged. Still a badass feat, too bad the point buy system makes the dex for some feats virtually unreachable without minmaxing.

Tharliss · Post by **Tharliss** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:11 pm

Yup, with the pre-req of a 25 Dex, it will be awhile before I could take that. But with a dex-based, rumblin', tumblin', Halflin'-Kukri-Slasher, the feat fits my character concept perfectly.

I agree Fuzz, it isn't very useful for fighting groups of folks, but for one-on-one, or CvC for that matter, it's a great feat. When that huge muscle-bound warrior is standing in front of you with that glowing two-handed sword, it's nice to know that his first, and most effective, swing will always miss on every round.

Tangleroot · Post by **Tangleroot** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:33 pm

Does anyone else hate dual-kukri halflings?

You don't have goggles, do you?

Tharliss · Post by **Tharliss** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:15 pm

Tangleroot wrote:Does anyone else hate dual-kukri halflings? You don't have goggles, do you?

I'll answer both questions for you: Yes, many characters hate a certain dual-wielding halfling, but not THIS particular halfling. And that's because I'm not the one who wears the goggles.

P.S. I'm still hunting your character....

Spell Singer · Post by **Spell Singer** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:21 am

I can not confirm this but I do not think you need to have a characteristic score base of the feat requirement.

If that was the case then a large number of feats available to characters in other classes are frankly impossible. Planar turning requires both a Charmisma of 25 and a wisdom of 25. This is impossible to achieve excepting perhaps using the half-nymph race.

As I understand it you can take the feat if you adjusted characteristic (including items) is over the minimum. But I do not know this for sure.

But without that I do not see how one could achieve the requirements for some of the feats. NWN does not seem to have the items which increase your characteristics permanently (tome of strength or whatnot) and those items are the only way you can otherwise achieve the stat values required.

Anyway I was told you count your item bonus towards the stat requirement. It does mean you can not use the feat if you unequip those items. But I have never been able to confirm this personally so it may be wrong.

Tyrion77 · Post by **Tyrion77** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:39 am

Unfortunatly you are... all feats, epic feats and epic spells use the base stats/skills as the perequisites. Making some of those HotU epic feats nigh on imposible to aquire unless you build the character from the begining with them in mind and even then the only real way to do it is via the Great (stat) feats that add +1 to your base stats.

Titanium Dragon · Post by **Titanium Dragon** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 10:38 am

Its possible to have both Cha 25 and Wis 25...

Wis 18
Cha 16

To start.

+5 to charisma by level 20

You can take great wisdom as a bonus epic feat with a cleric or druid (most likely cleric, with that high of charisma)

Thus every three levels +1 wis

PLUS every 4 levels an additional +1 cha

Plus every three levels +1 wis at 21, 24, ect...

21 19 wis 21 cha
23 20 wis 21 cha
24 21 wis 22 cha
26 22 wis 22 cha
27 23 wis 22 cha
28 23 wis 23 cha
29 24 wis 23 cha
30 24 wis 24 cha
32 25 wis 25 cha

Thus, at level 33 you could take that feat. Its even possible with cha 14, but at higher level obviously.

Dirk Cutlass · Post by **Dirk Cutlass** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 10:44 am

And in the meantime you miss out an any other feats. I think these feats requiring 25+ in some ability are really stupid, they are going to be unachievable, or achievable only at the expense of every other aspect of your character! Silly silly silly.

Titanium Dragon · Post by **Titanium Dragon** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 10:46 am

I hope vence can take overpowering critical...

And besides, that is rather the point. if everyone ran around with these feats, it would get totally out of hand.

Spell Singer · Post by **Spell Singer** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 11:34 am

Starting with an 18 and a 16...hmmm 8-->12 = 4 pts, 13-->16 = 8 pts 17-->18 = 6 pts.

you thus start with a character with Str: 8, Dex: 8, Con: 8, Wis: 18, Int: 8, Chr: 16

You will pardon me for saying that if you have to do this to get a single feat and you will never see that feat till Lvl 33 then you might as well say it is impossible to get that feat outside of a level gifting system.

Planar turning is only available to clerics and paladins (and pardon me but how in gods name is a paladin going to get a 25 wisdom the charisma of 25 is possible but hard).

The feats come straight from the epic level books, but epic characters in that system will have in general much higher stats than you see on any NWN character which is not hacked or equiped with obscene custom gear as their exists magic items which grant stat increases.

Argonaut · Post by **Argonaut** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 11:38 am

i think blackguards can get it too, allthough they would have an even harder time than the pallys

Khaelindra · Post by **Khaelindra** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 11:53 am

Your character receives it's feats naked...no item bonuses count.

This even goes as far as to deny for instance spellcasters with 18 stat, and +x from items, the use of 9th level spells even though they learn them with their items active...

M.

Titanium Dragon · Post by **Titanium Dragon** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 12:17 pm

Indeed; I wouldn't create a character geared towards it either. Just because you CAN do something does not make it wise.

And I can imagine a cleric with 18 wis and 14 cha (which means you'd probably get the feat around level 38 or so), but yeah, it still is rediculous. Just means that the two people you ever see with that feat must really, really hate planer beings.

choraldances · Post by **choraldances** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 4:30 pm

Titanium Dragon wrote: And besides, that is rather the point. if everyone ran around with these feats, it would get totally out of hand.

I think this is the point

Good one TD.

Spell Singer · Post by **Spell Singer** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:39 pm

I am sorry to say this but lets be reasonable here.

A fighter that does not have the strength to get the two critical feats is not much of a fighter. A strength of 23 or 25 is not hard to achieve for an epic fighter.

Blinding speed...dex of 25+ hard but not impossible for a high dex thief

Construct shape Wisdom 27 that will be tough

Damage Reduction is a con of 21 for a barbarian not hard either

Dragon shape wisdom 30 will be tough

Epic dodge dex of 25+ hard but not impossible for a dex build

greater smiting chr 25+ makes it a hard thing to get

Improved Ki strike...wisdom 21+ for a monk will be harsh

Improved stunning fist wisdom 19+, dex 19+ not so hard and if you want the improved Ki strike you get it anyway.

Improved whirlwind attack...dex 23+ likely few will end up with this

Mighty rage str 21+, con 21+ that may be hard for most barbarians but not impossible

Outsider shape wisdom 25 hard but not out of the world

Perfect health con 25+ hard again except for some characters

planar turning wis 25, chr 25 ok frankly nearly impossible except for a character build that is not survivable but forget this for a paladin or blackguard

Self concealment dex 30+ this is probably not a feat many will get (about as likely as planar turning)

Thundering rage str 25 which for a barbarian (especially a half orc one) not that hard though they have to forgo the constitution based feats.

The key point is to look at the epic feats you are allowed by class and to sort of remove those that have unrealistically high (as in you have to expend several feats in "great characteristic") to get this one feat.

To give and example lets look at paladins:

armor skin -- can do
Devestating critical -- please do not make me laugh
Epic toughness -- can do
Epic weapon focus -- can do
Epic prowess -- can do
Epic reputation -- can do
Great Smiting -- only if I want to give up several feats
Improved combat casting -- I cast spells in combat???
Overwealming critical -- oh my god please stop this sad joke
Perfect health -- is there a point to this oh and yes well there is the con 25 requirement
Planar turning -- *blink*

Please note that basically the only real paladin feat greater smiting (which to be effective has to be taken more than once) is something that I worked out would cost me a fair number of feats poured into charisma (and note these can not come from epic level feats...in fact the example above is false because you can not take great charisma with an epic feat unless allowed by your list and paladins and clerics do not get great charisma as an epic feat) from the standard feat you get every 3 levels.

The point is that most people are going to be limited to the feats that have no requirement beyond being epic.

Looking at Kaelyn I got that by lvl 32 putting all my characteristic increases into Charisma and using all 4 of my regular feats under greater charisma I could get greater smite..and using my last 2 epic feats to take that feat 3 times I would get 3x per day a smite evil with a lvlx4 additional damage (that takes 8 feats)...I still am not sure this is realy a good idea...+160 pts of damage is nice but I don't exactly smite all that many thing realistically and I gave up a lot for something that is only usable 3x per day.