Economic theory analysis of MMO class specialization

[Arond]

Enclosed link has a lengthy article applying economic theory to single class selection or multi-classing in MMO's. Pretty interesting (if you enjoy economic theory) read that got me thinking about how my character's role changes depending on the group that he's with. As I read through it I also gained an even greater appreciation on great a job the Team has done in creating a world where all different types of classes and characters can be useful and even more fun when mixed together.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3 ... hp?print=1

[Leertes]

Very interesting article. Anyone who merely looked at the link but didn't actually read it should go back and check it out.

[KinX]

Very interesting. Can't really be applied to NWN since there's no aggro and the AI cheats

But as a former WoW player, I wish the developers had that in mind when they designed the classes. Or maybe not, because then I might still be playing. The poorly designed hybrids (paladin in particular, shaman less so) was why I quit. Imagine playing what you thought would be melee class only to be forced into a healing role. Then imagine only having unlimited cure light wounds. shudders

[Leertes]

The reason that Avlis never has that problem of specialization vs. multi-talented is because essentially everyone has the ability to split away into a different area of expertise. Mages can always take Fighter levels to beef up their combat skills, Fighters can always take a few levels in a spell-casting class to up their magical abilities, or they can take a few levels of Rogue to get UMD for the same purpose.

However, in WoW and other MMOs the classes are more centralized with a specific list of abilities allowing no leeway. If you're a Fighter, then you're a Fighter. If you're a Mage, then you're a Mage. If you're a Paladin then you're a wussy and so on.

I'm surprised that other MMOs haven't taken a look at NWN for examples on how to ensure there's a purpose and design for every class. After all, I can't really remember any NWN class as being completely useless. Granted, some classes are better than others, but overall they're somewhat even.

[KinX]

The reason that Avlis never has that problem of specialization vs. multi-talented is because essentially everyone has the ability to split away into a different area of expertise. Mages can always take Fighter levels to beef up their combat skills, Fighters can always take a few levels in a spell-casting class to up their magical abilities, or they can take a few levels of Rogue to get UMD for the same purpose.

However, in WoW and other MMOs the classes are more centralized with a specific list of abilities allowing no leeway. If you're a Fighter, then you're a Fighter. If you're a Mage, then you're a Mage. If you're a Paladin then you're a wussy and so on.

I'm surprised that other MMOs haven't taken a look at NWN for examples on how to ensure there's a purpose and design for every class. After all, I can't really remember any NWN class as being completely useless. Granted, some classes are better than others, but overall they're somewhat even.

Being able to multiclass in MMO's would exponentially raise the complexity and so will never happen. The closest you can get to multiclassing is playing a hybrid. But hybrids have some masssive flaws, which that article was trying to address.

[Leertes]

My point was that they need to somehow give the option of multi-classing without raising the complexity. I understood that the article was pointing out the problem with Hybrids, and I was more commenting on the fact that they need to give more options in regards to class-configuration.

Granted, that will never happen in WoW-and most likely never in any MMOs as you pointed out, but if they could somehow manage to do that, it would erase the problem of Hybrids vs. specialized classes.

[KinX]

My point was that they need to somehow give the option of multi-classing without raising the complexity. I understood that the article was pointing out the problem with Hybrids, and I was more commenting on the fact that they need to give more options in regards to class-configuration.

the most they'll ever give is the option to customise your class which they already do through the talent trees in WoW. Each class has three options, I can't really remember them all anymore, but I know fighters can be DPS instead of be a Tank, Priests can also DPS instead of focusing on Healing and so on. So depending on how a player wants to spend their talent points, their chosen class can still be effective solo. I don't know about any other game as that's the only MMO i've ever played.

Granted, that will never happen in WoW-and most likely never in any MMOs as you pointed out, but if they could somehow manage to do that, it would erase the problem of Hybrids vs. specialized classes.

If you could apply DnD's multiclassing, such a char would effectively be useless in end-game content where each class has to fill a very specific role. The level cap before the xpac in WoW was 60. Whatever level combination you choose, whether it's 10/50 or 30/30, such a character would never be able to get the High Tier abilities of either class and so would in effect be useless as those abilities are essential in end-game. Besides, with multiclassing you're essentially creating your own custom hybrid. You'd still be back at square one with the Hybrid vs Specialist problem. Why would you want a second rate Tank when you can get the real deal?

[Leertes]

I have to ask then... how exactly-in your opinion-does NWN/DnD avoid the Specialized Class vs. Hybrid dispute?

Is it because there are no real Specialized Classes in NWN? Is it because a fully buffed Cleric makes just as good of a tank as a Barbarian?

Or is it because in NWN there are Specialized Classes, but by giving the option of multi-classing you ensure that some classes will be weaker in certain roles, but people take that path anyway because of role-play?

[Pathos Street]

It's because all the game design (D&D) was done to balance at level 20, but the level goes to 40, and many abilities scale with level. It's changed recently in Avlis, but up until then, there was little benefit taking casting classes beyond level 25 or so. Most prestige classes are only useful up until level 10 (in the case of some, you get the most important abilities even earlier... WM at 7, SD at 1, eg.).

So if you have a 20/20 multiclass character, you get most of the concrete benefits of both classes. Multiclassing actually makes your character more useful, not less in this game.

[KinX]

I have to ask then... how exactly-in your opinion-does NWN/DnD avoid the Specialized Class vs. Hybrid dispute?

Is it because there are no real Specialized Classes in NWN? Is it because a fully buffed Cleric makes just as good of a tank as a Barbarian?

Or is it because in NWN there are Specialized Classes, but by giving the option of multi-classing you ensure that some classes will be weaker in certain roles, but people take that path anyway because of role-play?

NWN/DnD doesn't need the class balance that MMO's need. In order to succeed in MMO's, your class MUST be a productive part of a raid/group that can include anywhere from 5 to 100 people. What that article was addressing was the uselessness that some players of hybrid classes may feel. Bear in mind, I haven't played the xpac of WoW and that may have already been addressed. I heard from friends that still play say that Paladins can be effective Raid tanks now. I have to say, seeing a group of 40 acting in concert to bring down a Raid boss is a thing of beauty.

In NWN/DnD it's entirely possible to build a character that's useless in every way combat wise, but may be fun to play for rp reasons. The aim of NWN and DnD isn't to "win", it's to have fun with your character concept. Very different from MMO's where the aim very much is to win, getting a place in a Raid can be very competitive and playing a class that's seen as inferior can be detrimental to you getting an invite.

In NWN/DnD, if your objective is to be a complete badass either through magic or melee, then roll up that kind of a char, no one's going to stop you. Hell, there's class builds on the net that maximise character builds for the goal of kicking butt. Someone said a while ago on these boards that there's no such thing as class balance in DnD. I find that to be very true.

In my humble opinion, NWN/DnD doesn't avoid the specialist vs hybrid problem, it ignores it. It's just not relevant.