40th Level Characters

[TripleAught]

Again, you're connected, you're in a lot of events. There are lots of us who are in next to nothing, meaning that they would probably never level up. Remove that 7000 from DM events and reassess.

I wouldn't complain about not being connected when you had your chance and left it after one bad encounter.

If you are really worried about your monster XP, go live in Ferrell and craft all day. You can just make big batches of 50 everytime to make sure you have enough to overcome the penalty.

[Serineth Swiftpaw]

Again, you're connected, you're in a lot of events. There are lots of us who are in next to nothing, meaning that they would probably never level up. Remove that 7000 from DM events and reassess.

I wouldn't complain about not being connected when you had your chance and left it after one bad encounter.

If you are really worried about your monster XP, go live in Ferrell and craft all day. You can just make big batches of 50 everytime to make sure you have enough to overcome the penalty.

FYI, me leaving had NOTHING to do with that encounter.

[Nightface]

Heh, sorry for the slow response, I was desperately in need of sleep. *points to Avlis SoCal Meet thread*

Ok, don't like negative responses? *shrugs* Sometimes I will endeavour to me more gentle and verbose with my viewpoints on on an issue, but other times, a good hard slap in the face with a cold halibut seems more appropriate.

Why, you ask, would I want to come across as such a bastard? (my choice of words, nobody here has insulted me in any meaningful way) Well, in this instance, it's because I feel the concept of looking at 40th level and thinking, "Gee, what will I be able to do past that?" is simply a case of letting the end become more important than the journey to get there.

Now, how could I dare advocate that Avlis not have any static challenges for over-20s? Because I look at the way Epics are presented in PnP. The dungeon full of critters is no longer their concern. That would be like using a tac-nuke to take out a crackhouse. The Epic character is on a level of power that enables them to deal with world-threatening events, and here's an important point, or threats that cross the planes.

Keep in mind that I am not referring to the portals we have for CoPaP. Comparing Epic-style planar travel with those is like comparing Lewis & Clark's exploration of North America to a housewife taking the bus to visit her friend. Epics are supposed to forge their own paths through the planes to accomplish deeds that no other would be able to accomplish, not run around looking for bigger beetles to squash.

Folks have said that people would still farm XP, even if they have to slaughter thousands of critters for 2-5XP each, and I say that's irrelevant. The people who do that are the basest form of PGer, are probably known to the Team already as such, and will most likely get bored and either start RPing or leave. If they don't get bored and leave, well, no skin off my nose, they'll spend so much time farming those miniscule bits of XP that they'll never have time to bother the rest of us.

I do understand the points raised about "unknown" epic characters, but one thing it seems has been overlooked is that, no matter what your timezone, if you are truly Epic, then in all likelihood, somebody should know of you and the great deeds you have accomplished! If they're from off-world, that's fine, but I would hope they've made a name for themselves on their homeworld.

Anyway, my original point still stands. It was never about PGing, XPvRP, or anything else. The conversation that led up to my second post simply makes me feel that becoming an over-20 has become tawdry and cheap. It's not about being a legendary, Epic hero/villain.

Go home nightface, you smelly troll.

I am at home, I'm not very smelly although I was a bit ripe after our trip to Dave&Buster's on saturday, and I am most certainly not a troll. Thank you, and have a nice day.

[Nighthawk4]

I have been here just over 2 years. My highest level character is a 10.

True, I have several of those, but I rarely play the higher ones. I find the lower ones are often more fun for RP than the higher ones.

I strongly doubt that I will ever reach 40 (levels - I am way past that in years). Who cares?

Once, on a previous PW (the one where Sorcerors are hunted down and killed), I had a level 20 for a while, just before they did a servervault wipe. It was great running around with a level 20 monk, kicking the crap out of anything I found (NPCs not players - I don't do CvC). However, it got dull very quickly. Even so, I still left when they did the wipe. My characters, my precioussss.

Of course, I do have one character. He is only a level 1 Fighter, but the power he has is awesome - Godlike even

I use him more than any of the others. Nice guy - gives out lots of cookies. Of course, you don't see him around much.

[Wyrmwing]

Again, you're connected, you're in a lot of events. There are lots of us who are in next to nothing, meaning that they would probably never level up.

It takes time, effort, and commitment. That's all.

[Kareth]

Again, you're connected, you're in a lot of events. There are lots of us who are in next to nothing, meaning that they would probably never level up.

It takes time, effort, and commitment. That's all.

Being able to stay up after 0 GMT helps as well - I have lost count of the number of guild events I have missed due to sleep

Still it just makes me appreciate the ones I can attend even more

[apandapion]

Now, how could I dare advocate that Avlis not have any static challenges for over-20s? Because I look at the way Epics are presented in PnP. The dungeon full of critters is no longer their concern. That would be like using a tac-nuke to take out a crackhouse. The Epic character is on a level of power that enables them to deal with world-threatening events, and here's an important point, or threats that cross the planes.

Avlis falls somewhat short of the PnP implementation of the lower levels, we don't even need to talk about the epic levels. Tracking? Nope. Combat reflexes? Nope. Information gathering? Nope. Many of the monsters? Nope. Ecology? Nope. Destructable enviornment? Nope. I've never skipped a PnP game to play Avlis - I doubt I ever will. I still love Avlis, however, and I understand the technical limitations that block the above.

Some of the things needed to properly challenge a 30th level mage are absent. I agree. However, some of the things needed to properly challenge a 1st level ranger are just as glaringly absent! Does that imply that we should give up on playing both 30th level mages and 1st level rangers?

You may not enjoy epic level Avlis content. I can imagine a hypothetical D&D player named Bob who is't entertained by Avlis on any level. (Say he doesn't like NWN.) But just like Bob's argument to shut down Avlis isn't compelling, neither is your request to remove epic level content because you don't like it particularly compelling either.

At level 30 or level 1, the most compelling thing in town is the other PC standing next to you. Being able to interact with people from around the globe thusly is Avlis' true strength, and it's just as fun at level 30 as at level 1. And if they added demi-god levels (I doubt it, but if they did), you wouldn't be able to create worlds or do any appropriately "godlike" abilities... but I think it would still be fun, because the key component, other players, is still present.

I look forward to CoPaP planes dedicated to challenging epic level characters. They will probably exist someday, and they will be a hoot.

[KunojiLym]

[quote="Kareth]Being able to stay up after 0 GMT helps as well - I have lost count of the number of guild events I have missed due to sleep [/quote]

*shakes a fist at damn timezones *

[Nightface]

Some of the things needed to properly challenge a 30th level mage are absent. I agree. However, some of the things needed to properly challenge a 1st level ranger are just as glaringly absent! Does that imply that we should give up on playing both 30th level mages and 1st level rangers?

A little off the mark. I'm saying the over-20s should be setting their sights a little higher than killing critters. If you are truly Epic, aim for higher goals. The presence of static areas for the over-20s simply cheapens the true value of reaching the point where your character can become Epic.

You may not enjoy epic level Avlis content. I can imagine a hypothetical D&D player named Bob who is't entertained by Avlis on any level. (Say he doesn't like NWN.) But just like Bob's argument to shut down Avlis isn't compelling, neither is your request to remove epic level content because you don't like it particularly compelling either.

*shrugs* Just because you say they should be in is no reason for them to exist, either.

I posted what I did because I expressed an opinion, and people practically demanded I justify my stance, which I also did. They are my opinions, and I have seen no compelling arguments stated here that give me reason to reevaluate that opinion. If none of my arguments have caused you to revise yours either, such is life. That was never really my goal.

At level 30 or level 1, the most compelling thing in town is the other PC standing next to you. Being able to interact with people from around the globe thusly is Avlis' true strength, and it's just as fun at level 30 as at level 1. And if they added demi-god levels (I doubt it, but if they did), you wouldn't be able to create worlds or do any appropriately "godlike" abilities... but I think it would still be fun, because the key component, other players, is still present.

Once again, irrelevant to my statements. It was never about RPvXP. It was about me not liking the fact that being over-20 means so little. I figured there would be people who didn't agree with me, so I'm not really surprised that some of you don't.

I look forward to CoPaP planes dedicated to challenging epic level characters. They will probably exist someday, and they will be a hoot.

I'll reserve forming an opinion until such a server is created, if ever. My concern is that it will simply be a big XP and loot source, with players going over there simply for that.

What I would rather see, not that I really consider it that feasible, would a DM or two dedicated to coming up with Epic scale plots for the few truly Epic characters on Avlis. Things that really have an impact on the shape of the world. We've got a few plots like that running now, and I would laugh my ass off if a clever solution is found by some 8th level character from Ferrell. To me, that guy would definitely be considered Epic even though he's an under-20!

[pedsdmd]

".

[Serineth Swiftpaw]

Again, you're connected, you're in a lot of events. There are lots of us who are in next to nothing, meaning that they would probably never level up.

It takes time, effort, and commitment. That's all.

To be honest, I have found I have more fun NOT being in these guilds and pre-planned events and just going along and RPing with people who I find wondering around. Sure, it means I miss out on any of the items given out in events, sure, I miss out on all the cookies, sure, I miss out on chances of having my name in the history books, but all in all, despite that being a rather major hit, I still prefer to go at it unafiliated. It would just be nice if there were more random events for the groups that are wondering around rather than guilds.

Why? Don't know really. I suppose I just like freedom to do my own thing. Timezones don't help much either, but, meh.

[pedsdmd]

"Why, you ask, would I want to come across as such a bastard? (my choice of words, nobody here has insulted me in any meaningful way) Well, in this instance, it's because I feel the concept of looking at 40th level and thinking, "Gee, what will I be able to do past that?" is simply a case of letting the end become more important than the journey to get there."

Nightface, I think you read the original post and reassess this statement.

If you get off your "Roleplay or die" soapbox you will see that the original post has nothing to do with Powergaming or the lack of RP.

In fact, I do not have an epic character, i was hoping to have a interesting chat about what some of these players who have played for years envision their PC's doing after so much time and dedication and reaching such a rare accomplishment.

If I heard correctly, there were originally only 20 lvs to begin with and it was raised to 21-40.

Was that a bad thing? Is it inconceivable to you that maybe something interesting could occur after 40.

Would it be so horrible to hear good/funny ideas about what may ocur for approx. 2 or 3 players after yrs of play?

Do you think after 3 years of playing these players havent smelled any roses?

If there was such a powergaming epidemic how come there are no 40th lvl players yet?

Are you implying that Green is a Powergamer just because she is near 40th lvl?


I seems that you are very insecure for some reason unknown to me.

Or is that your general response to anyone who dare asks a question or is interested about topics of Epic nature?

If or when you have kids are you gonna tell your daughters all boys are the devil and if you kiss them you will get pregnant?

I respect your opinion, i just dont see the reason for the negativity over a General discussion question that may affect only 2 or 3 PC's .

For the record I view Epic characters as having player development equaling or exceeding their character levels and who have had a profound effect on the game and who are well known for the roles they played IG.

[Sojan]

Now Nightface, this is what I call good arguments....

those last posts gives you credits, in my opinion again...and a lot more than this second post of crap!

I agree with you as I said before...but to remove those areas, well...you have two ways of seeing it...having all players that became epic by killing criters to go away on other worlds....or removing the chance of maybe accomplishing a quest or two that might be available and interesting when no DM is available and you are not part of the plot going on..

EDIT: And to be honest, I don't really know what an over 40 char could do here on Avlis...since at this time, there is not so much of godlike events...that a 40th lvl chars could risk his life to save the world...or as a villain, to risk his life to control it. If only good chars getting the 40...well...there MUST be a villain for them...for more RP and more fun for everyone.

I must say this...I always loved and still do love PnP and plays (more DM lately) it regularly. But since I came into Avlis, I kind of changed my view on my chars I play and that is because...before, I was always metagaming in PnP...well...trying to find out what was the best feat combination, what would be the best spells and skills. I must say that now I take feats only if it goes with my char...even if it slows him down from a bit of power...so...here I say Avlis is great and gave me this touch that....well...I HAVE to know the rules as a DM...but not use them to build my char and how to play it...it's quite more fun...more into it I say!

that is what I wanted to add...not really related to original post I know...but hey...

[Nightface]

Nightface, I think you read the original post and reassess this statement.

If you get off your "Roleplay or die" soapbox you will see that the original post has nothing to do with Powergaming or the lack of RP.

Never said anything intended as "Roleplay or Die". If it came across as that, I apologize and will endeavour to make statements that are clearer and less misleading in the future. My issue is, and always has been, the feeling I got that 40 wasn't good enough.

In fact, I do not have an epic character, i was hoping to have a interesting chat about what some of these players who have played for years envision their PC's doing after so much time and dedication and reaching such a rare accomplishment.

40th level is not an accomplishment. It's the eventual result of accruing a crapload of XP. Being Epic is, and has nothing to do with levels. Kered Rose is a good example. I don't think he's over 20 (I might be wrong about this), but he has managed to make himself known throughout M'Chek, and gain a seat in the governmental body simply through persistence and clever RP. He now has a solid channel to help shape the policies and attitudes of an entire government. To me, that is what makes a character Epic.

If I heard correctly, there were originally only 20 lvs to begin with and it was raised to 21-40.

Was that a bad thing? Is it inconceivable to you that maybe something interesting could occur after 40.

Nope, it's not inconceivable. What was bothering me was the attitudes I was hearing that made it sound like being an over-20 simply meant you were closer to your goal over reaching 40.

Would it be so horrible to hear good/funny ideas about what may ocur for approx. 2 or 3 players after yrs of play?

No, it would be very pleasant. Unfortunately, I wasn't hearing any good or funny ideas, simply people drooling for better numbers, or extra feats, or a neat new race, or even divinity. If any of the people who were posting here don't think they sounded this way, then maybe they should reassess their statements.

Do you think after 3 years of playing these players havent smelled any roses?

Those who have been here for 3 years most likely have. It's the ones who are breaking 30 after ONE year that I would wonder about.

If there was such a powergaming epidemic how come there are no 40th lvl players yet?

I never said there was a PGing "epidemic". I was pointing out that people were attaching no importance to anything other than how high they can get. Breaking 20 is supposed to mean something, and it doesn't seem to anymore.

Are you implying that Green is a Powergamer just because she is near 40th lvl?

Nope. You are inferring that. I never implied it.

I seems that you are very insecure for some reason unknown to me.

More personal attacks? Are these really necessary? My IG interactions with you have always been pleasant, pedsdmd, and I really don't think this level of hostility is called for.

Or is that your general response to anyone who dare asks a question or is interested about topics of Epic nature?

You asked questions, I gave answers. Don't blame me if you don't like them. If it had been a general talk about being Epic or simply being over-20, then my tone may have been a bit different. However, the talk was all about wanting more. I found that very bothersome, so I respoded.

If or when you have kids are you gonna tell your daughters all boys are the devil and if you kiss them you will get pregnant?

Yep, have a daughter. Yep, going to tell her boys are the devil. Yep, when she eventually stops listening to me and starts dating, I'm going to have my sword collection very visible, and I am going to make sure those boys know how much danger they are in if they hurt her.

Not very fond of the kissing=pregnancy approach though.

I respect your opinion, i just dont see the reason for the negativity over a General discussion question that may affect only 2 or 3 PC's .

I was actually being dismissive in my first post. It was the second one that qualifies as being "negative". My negativity was in response to the attitudes displayed by some of the previous posts.

For the record I view Epic characters as having player development equaling or exceeding their character levels and who have had a profound effect on the game and who are well known for the roles they played IG.

Agreed, which is why I draw the delineation between Epics, and over-20s.

Here's a thought, why don't all of you who have been getting on my arse about this try answering my questions...

1. What does it matter who reaches 40 first?

2. Since it's not likely to be too different to what they are doing now, why wonder about what they'll do after?

3. Why do we need more levels after 40?

They are essay questions, so no answer is wrong. Don't be surprised, however, if people don't agree with you.

[szabot]

I still just want to know if Green would choose to become a shrub.

[Nightface]

I still just want to know if Green would choose to become a shrub.

That would be hilarious.

[Beary666]

This is my view when it comes to Epic Characters. If you're over 20 and my character doesn't know you, his friends don't know you and any one he respects doesn't know you, you are a nobody.

[Beary666]

I still just want to know if Green would choose to become a shrub.

That would be hilarious.

killler, HIPS'ing shrub that will rain terror on the drylands of M'Chek

[szabot]

I still just want to know if Green would choose to become a shrub.

That would be hilarious.

killler, HIPS'ing shrub that will rain terror on the drylands of M'Chek

The deadly, disappearing shrub, a.k.a. the terror of M'Chek.

Nice.

[Beary666]

I still just want to know if Green would choose to become a shrub.

That would be hilarious.

killler, HIPS'ing shrub that will rain terror on the drylands of M'Chek

The deadly, disappearing shrub, a.k.a. the terror of M'Chek.

Nice.

Don't forget that it wields a big ass bow and a longsword dripping with acid

[ReallyStupidGuy]

well, Beary666 knows my main Bashthraka now so I am not a nobody! And well, I disagree with getting set XP every day. I believe it detracts from people wanting to play and from the whole addiction factor. Granted it is an RP game but XP is still a fun reward and benefit. Why would I want to go on for 12 hours a day when I could go on for 1 or 2 and still have the same XP by the end of the day.

As for leveling up goes, now I get much more of my XP from helping out lower level people and DM events. I usually find now that I never solo any dungeons at all and I only go to them because some lower level people asked me to or because I have a real purpose involved.

I would like to think that a pretty good amount of people know me and know that I am a pretty decent RPer and now a confusing one since I have the orcish packet

[Beary666]

well, Beary666 knows my main Bashthraka now so I am not a nobody! And well, I disagree with getting set XP every day. I believe it detracts from people wanting to play and from the whole addiction factor. Granted it is an RP game but XP is still a fun reward and benefit. Why would I want to go on for 12 hours a day when I could go on for 1 or 2 and still have the same XP by the end of the day.

As for leveling up goes, now I get much more of my XP from helping out lower level people and DM events. I usually find now that I never solo any dungeons at all and I only go to them because some lower level people asked me to or because I have a real purpose involved.

I would like to think that a pretty good amount of people know me and know that I am a pretty decent RPer and now a confusing one since I have the orcish packet

Well ya better damn well get to work. Can't have my main banished from Mikona now can I. If you can't get that simple task done, then you're a nobody

j/k

[Vichan Lyonsen]

If there was such a powergaming epidemic how come there are no 40th lvl players yet?

I never said there was a PGing "epidemic". I was pointing out that people were attaching no importance to anything other than how high they can get. Breaking 20 is supposed to mean something, and it doesn't seem to anymore.

If it makes you feel any better.. I think there is a powergaming epidemic...

just in case you want to pester me about it...I've been saying it for ages...even when I was on the team...BUT powergaming isnt against the rules...the team has their position on them and it works for them.

as to why no-one has hit 40th yet?...well at least no-one on avlis...its still a lot of XP theres no argueing that, I also am hoping that the PGer's tire of all the work for lessening xp numbers and they run off to find a nice hack-n-slash mod to play in..

Also there is no reason to assume that high levels=PGer...however if someones been here for 2-3 months and are in thier mid 20's in levels well the jury is still out on them IMO only

[Nighthawk4]

Why only a shrub?

An Epic character should aspire to being a Forest - or at least a decent-sized Tree - maybe a majestic Oak or a Sequoia.

[Alphonse]

Why only a shrub?

An Epic character should aspire to being a Forest - or at least a decent-sized Tree - maybe a majestic Oak or a Sequoia.

well being attacked by a shrug has a greater element of surprise than being attacked by a forest