The relative importance of the axes on the alignment grid

[Aloro]

Wolf:

The GODS O'Ma (NG) and Angadar (LE) are friends.

'Nuff said on the issue of friendship across alignments.

If you want to talk how you would run alignment in your own campaign, that's fine. That has no bearing on how things are done in Avlis.

Oh, and I don't understand in the least how you could suggest that CG and LE aren't opposed alignments. They don't get any more opposed that that. Free will and individuality in service of others is diametrically and completely opposed to domination of others in service of your own ends.

I have to reaffirm that being CG does NOT make one a vigilante. Vigilantism is one way of dealing with crime, but is not the only valid CG way.

Let's all lighten up a bit, eh? No need to get hostile or accusatory because you disagree with someone else's views. Mature discussion remains an option.

- Aloro

[Titanium Dragon]

It IS possible to be friends with someone who you don't agree with totally idealogically. IRL I have friends who are Christian, and who aren't pro-choice. They aren't GOOD friends, but they are friends.

Yes, it's possible to be friends with someone whose ideology does not exactly match your own. However, they cannot stray too far from your own moral compass, or it won't work. If one of these "friends" you mention asked you to sit with her (I'm assuming at least one is female, if not the example is still valid) in the operating theatre, holding her hand to support her while she has an abortion, would you?

As you said, they aren't good friends. What does that make them? Acquaintances - you just made my point for me.

Note: that "aren't" should have been an "are", seeing as I'm an atheist. I have good friends who are pagan. And christian. And agnostic. Apparently you have the right to define who I consider to be a friend. I have many layers of closeness to friends. There are acquaintances, there are friends of all flavors, then there are good friends, what many call "best" friends. I have several best friends who aren't atheist. In fact, most of my "best" friends are agnostic or christian.

Any female friend I have, I would absolutely sit there in the operating room with holding their hand. I am pro-choice after all, and its the decent thing to do even if you are not and someone close to you asks you to be there for them... or even if they don't, and don't have anyone else to.

Again, depends on the paladin and the Chaotic Good person. The CG one may drive the paladin crazy, but some real friends of mine do that to me at times, but I'm still their friend. Other people may be the equivalent distance from me and I'd dislike them considerably.

A LG Paladin who is in an adventuring party with a CG Fighter (for example) will tolerate the CG Fighter for as long as their goals match. However, if the Fighter decides one day not to accept the surrender of an enemy party, how is the Paladin going to react? Will he a) continue on as if nothing happened or b) relieve the fighter of his weapons and turn him over to the local authorities?

A CG Fighter is, for all intents and purposes, a vigilante. A LG Paladin is, essentially, a Marshall. What kind of relationship are they going to have? Sure they may each respect the others abilities, but they are not friends, and they would not work together voluntarily.

Depends on the CG fighter. Again, you are overgeneralizing based on alignment.

CG and LE are not opposed alignments, so there's no reason such a union could not work (though there would be tension).

Those are very different alignments, as far apart as LG and CE, though, admittedly, CGers and LEers tend to be more open-minded than LGers. Also, people aren't wholly one thing. Someone could be LE, but feel sorry for orphans and give them money, food, candy ect. as they too were an orphan once. If you only saw that side of them, you might be horrified by their more sinister side... but if you never saw the other side, you might think they were the nicest person there is.

that is a completely unnecessary comment. and besides.. I would say that the person who has less than 15 posts and thinks he knows everything about alignment is more of a troll than anyone else.

Jordicus, you know better than to say stuff like that. Number of posts doesn't matter. *sighs*

And Wolf... the rules only state for paladins who you can be friends with, and as someone else mentioned, the DM can change ANY rule.

All I ever said is that in order to have anything more than a work relationship with another character (ie: an adventuring party) the general alignments of the characters involved cannot be on extreme ends of the alignment spectrum.

Not true. It all depends on the people involved and their individual philosophies.

Also, IMO most people on Avlis are more neutral than anything else, despite their alignment sheets saying "good", so it really isn't that big of an issue anyway as most people tend towards the middle rather than towards the end. Most characters are neutral good or chaotic good, and a number are TN, and a lot of NG and CG characters tend more towards the middle, so...

In other news, I am apparently the 22nd most important person on these forums. Yay for me!

Now, go play Avlis instead of trying to compete with my post count everyone.

[Jordicus]

Jordicus, you know better than to say stuff like that. Number of posts doesn't matter. *sighs*

yeah.. yeah.. I know.. i already removed it...







but number of posts does count!!! #3597!!

[Papainhell]

I don't what's worse, that this is even still an issue, or that I read all of it

[Fifty]

Both conditions must match (or at least be as close as possible) for the characters to consider themselves friends. Thus, while a Lawful character may fight & die to defend others, he will only call L-G, or N-G characters his friends. Chaotic characters are too far from his ideology: they are not a threat to his life, but they are a threat to his way of living. Likewise, while a Good character will share his last scrap of food with an evil character (should some condition exist which forces them to work together), they are not friends, and the Evil character would take all the food if given the opportunity.

Sorry XXXX. I don't think Laen and XXXX can be friends any more. (You know who you are)

What a load of toss you just typed. Now, I don't know this for a fact, but I suspect XXXX is probably evil. On the other hand Laen is CG, used to be NG.( I actually asked for, and got, a hit of 20 on both axes.) Why can't Laen be friends with someone who has saved his life, made sacrifices for him etc...? I know he isn't perfect, but he has been good to me. I know OOC that he has told me a few lies, but not IC I don't.

When you start basing your friendships in the game on an OOC alignment grid then you have a problem. The "rules" are a tool to allow us to create a liveable and enjoyable envoronment, not a straitjacket set of ruels to tell us how we must act.

I don't know who XXXX is, but I've never met them IC and AFAIK they've never posted on the evil boards and are new. So cut them a bit of slack? They'll learn, but insulting them isn't going to help.

XXXX is not a character name, it is a self-edit because it is not widely known quite how evil that person is.

[Fuzz]

I barely read any of it!

Go me!

[Vergilius]

I barely read any of it!

Go me!

me too, some things are just a waste of time.