Request to make slings "mighty"

[Deschutes]

Where the hell does strength come into play when using a sling?

Umm have you ever used a actual sling... not a slingshot... but a sling...

It is definitely a strength operated weapon...

[Spell Singer]

Strength comes into play with a sling because the stronger you are the faster you can cause the sling to rotate, the faster the sling rotates the more momentum is built up in the sling so that means the harder the sling bullet (which is a sizable piece of lead) hits the target when released.

You need to be strong to keep the sling rotating (since there is considerable force exerted against you as the object in the sling wants to travel in a straight line and you have to keep making it curve).

If you want I can write out the force equations for you and demostrate this mathematically, I can also demonstrate that it takes energy to cause the sling to rotate and the only place you can get that energy is from your muscles.

At a certain point if you are not strong enough the sling just leaves your hand.

The reason the sling only does d4 damage is to compensate for the fact it gets a strength bonus addition.

[Dirk Cutlass]

If you want I can write out the force equations for you and demostrate this mathematically, I can also demonstrate that it takes energy to cause the sling to rotate and the only place you can get that energy is from your muscles.

Yes, please - I'd love to see the equations Also, how much energy is given to the sling bullet as it leaves the sling (I guess this is its kinetic energy if only I could remember the equations).. and how does that compare with the energy of say an arrow, or modern day gun bullet? Just out of interest?

[JadeNight]

Slings are cool... halfling get a bonus when using them. I like the idea of having mighty slings available since the NWN coding apparantly doesn't account for strenght bonuses when using them.

[Khaelindra]

Yes, please - I'd love to see the equations Also, how much energy is given to the sling bullet as it leaves the sling (I guess this is its kinetic energy if only I could remember the equations).. and how does that compare with the energy of say an arrow, or modern day gun bullet? Just out of interest?

Hard to meaningfully compare energies, as basically you'd compare piercing weapons, where kinetic energy is only a factor relating to item wieght and penetration resistance, with a bludgeoning weapon which directly uses transfer of kinetic energy compared to mass-inertia of the target as a damaging factor.

Just my 2 eurocents.

[Titanium Dragon]

I remember it being an optional rule somewhere also that you can't get a strength bonus larger than the max damage that the weapon itself can do. I rather like that rule (though obviously it wasn't implemented in NWN) because it is rather rediculous to do mad amounts of damage with shuriken and some other weapons simply because of greater strength.

However, that is neither here nor there.

[Spell Singer]

I'll look up the formulas to make sure I don't make any mistakes tomorrow at lunch.

As for the momentum and energy that can be compared directly without too much problem if you know the mass of the object and its velocity.

momentum = mass * Velocity

Energy = 0.5 * mass * Velocity^2

A modern rifle round has a mass of say 5 g and moves at 1000 m/s or there abouts I am not that current on balistic characteristics of military handweapons.

gives it a momentum of 5 Ns which isn't that much but it is not negligable either.
but an energy of 2.5 kJ which is considerable given your body has to absorb that.

A arrow weighs say 50 g and has an impact velocity around 50 m/s so the momentum transfer around 2.5 Ns which again isn't that much though that is concentrated in the tip of the arrow which means the penetration force is significantly higher.
but an energy of 32 J which is considerably less then the bullet.

A sling probably has a weight of 200 g and a similier impact velocity so it has considerably higher momentum transfer 10 Ns or there abouts. The energy is also about 100 J considerably less then in the case of a rifle round.

I would realy need to check the velocity of an arrow again...a long bow had 200 lbs of pull a crossbow considerably higher than that. A direct hit from either (fired in a flat trajectory not the arching one I was assuming above) would hurt regardless of if the weapon penetrated or not. A sling bullet would stagger you but I doubt there is enough energy in the ball to penetrate skin if it hit you in the stomach say.

Consider the momentum balance ...

Mass * velocity = Mass * velocity

75 kg * V = 0.2 kg * 50 m/s

give a V of 7.5 m/s which assuming the impact time is 0.1 s is 75 m/s2...so you have to absorb that into your body...that is substantial and I suspect you know you have been hit by the sling bullet (probably feels much like a medicine ball just hit you).

But without knowing the real velocity (which might be a lot lower than 50 m/s) its hard to say. I am confident it is unpleasent though. Absorbing that energy is probably enough to break bones...as you absorb the energy required to slow the sling bullet from 50 m/s to 0....

All and all this is not pleasent.

[Emprod]

So how far could a sling launch an african swallow? Assuming it's not carrying a coconut.

[Furin]

I remember it being an optional rule somewhere also that you can't get a strength bonus larger than the max damage that the weapon itself can do. I rather like that rule (though obviously it wasn't implemented in NWN) because it is rather rediculous to do mad amounts of damage with shuriken and some other weapons simply because of greater strength.

However, that is neither here nor there.

TD,


Remember, a piece of straw can be propelled with enough force to actually embed itself in a tree, as has been observed in the aftermath of some tornados.
So it's not entirely ridiculous to think that a small object can do massive amounts of damage if hurled with sufficient strength.


Raised in tornado country,
Furin

[choraldances]

So how far could a sling launch an african swallow? Assuming it's not carrying a coconut.

42 Yards

[Vanor]

As much as I'd support something like this. I don't think it will ever happen.

To do this would require us to go in and remake every sling that was included in NWN, SoU, and HotU. Then we'd have to change every merchant who sells slings, so they sell the new ones. Then there's the PC's who wouldn't have access to anything but the old ones, or the new ones for sale, which means normall slings.

So in short, this requires far too much work for the benifit gained.

[Tangleroot]

How about just making a trader who sells mighty slings? The sling maniacs could would be happy, I guess.

[Emprod]

Or tweak the craftable ones.

[Nob]

I think just adding mighty to the craftable slings(Masterwork, and above, maybe give us something to play with various levels of slings which require different materials?) would go a long way towards alleviating the sling problem AND give crafters something that people would find desirable.(This is a proble particularly in tailoring where the other low-level stuff can't be sold to Bioware merchants at all due to their low price.)

[Dirk Cutlass]

I think just adding mighty to the craftable slings(Masterwork, and above, maybe give us something to play with various levels of slings which require different materials?) would go a long way towards alleviating the sling problem AND give crafters something that people would find desirable.(This is a proble particularly in tailoring where the other low-level stuff can't be sold to Bioware merchants at all due to their low price.)

Yep, craftable seems the best option. Unfortunately, I think having mighty will increase the cost a lot too, which would make these things quite a good profit maker for tailors, so they should be appropriately difficult to make. But I guess the crafting designers know all about those things.

[Spell Singer]

Dirk,

I am going to recommend you do this as an excersize for the student...go to a library and look up a book on classical mechanics and then check out the section on angular momentum...that should have all the gory details of why you need to be strong to rotate a sling rapidly...or why the length of the straps are important and a number of other interesting things.

Its easier then trying to figure out how to right differential equations in board talk

And yes making craftable mighty slings would be a darn good idea.

[CPU]

Yep, craftable seems the best option. Unfortunately, I think having mighty will increase the cost a lot too, which would make these things quite a good profit maker for tailors, so they should be appropriately difficult to make. But I guess the crafting designers know all about those things.

Most of the trailoring items one can make sell for around 1gp each. Do you know how much dyes cost? Unless making for a PC willing to pay, no tailor could keep a shop going. Most of what can be made at the lower and mid levels just don't interest people or it's too much hassle to try to find a tailor and set up a meeting - for a dress or a robe that looks cool, but does nothing but, look cool.

If you take time to make armor, which is armormaking ~not tailoring~ you can make some money with the padded armors. The only thing I know of right now that gets you enough gold to continue working are masterwork slings. I'd like to make the other things, but I have to make a sling to buy 2-3 dyes and then search for the other ingrediants. In terms of profitability the tailors, IMHO got the short end of the stick. I suppose that is why I only know of three or 4 tailors

I wouldn't worry about tailors becoming Barron-Kings swimming in gold because of one nice item...

[Starslayer_D]

Most of the tailoring stuff is supposed to increase PC to PC interaction...