Question about magic item prices

[Kerrick]

How much does DR 5/- vs. a given type (slashing, piercing, bludgeoning) cost? I want to make items like that for PnP, but I have no idea what they're worth.

[Aeveras]

Damage resistance is (as far as I can tell) almost non-existent to PCs in PnP, and damage reduction is extremely expensive (each casting of stoneskin requires pricey diamond dust). There's something called Vestments of Faith which give 5/+5 damage reduction, and go for 76000gp, and in PnP, that's a lot.

- Aeveras

[Istahire]

Mantle of Faith gives DR 5/evil, and costs 76,000gp.

Light adamantine armour: gives DR 1/- and costs +5000 gp
Medium adamantine armour: gives DR 2/- and costs +10000 gp
Heavy adamantine armour: gives DR 3/- and costs +15000 gp
(DMG:283)

Those are the only instances I can remember references for, so very rare, as Vera said.

[gwydion2]

How much does DR 5/- vs. a given type (slashing, piercing, bludgeoning) cost? I want to make items like that for PnP, but I have no idea what they're worth.

Obviously DR5/- vs Slashing is something you only get in 3rd edition, which NWN is based on.
In 3.5 it might be 5/Slash - which stops bludgeoning and piercing, but not slashing.
Are you playing 3.0 or 3.5 in PnP?

DR items are a bit more available in NWN, as it's a much more combat heavy environment than PnP.

If you want your players to have these, think carefully about the effect first. It will allow them to handle very large numbers of weak creatures, with little risk. Make sure they cost a lot relative to the availability of cash in your world. This is a powerful item at most levels and you may not want to see the whole party kitted out in them in short order.

[Kerrick]

Obviously DR5/- vs Slashing is something you only get in 3rd edition, which NWN is based on.
In 3.5 it might be 5/Slash - which stops bludgeoning and piercing, but not slashing.
Are you playing 3.0 or 3.5 in PnP?

Technically it should be resistance 5 vs. slashing, not DR 5/- slashing. I play 3.5.

If you want your players to have these, think carefully about the effect first. It will allow them to handle very large numbers of weak creatures, with little risk.

It's not really for my players - I don't DM - but just for general design, since I write d20 material. But yeah, it would likely cost a LOT.

[Kerrick]

For anyone who cares:

Near as I can tell, they came up with some prices, then divided them by 5 for NWN purposes, since gp value determines the minimum level you can be to use things, and limits prices at biomerchants (both buying and selling).

So, PnP prices for damage resistance 5 against one type (lesser bands of the club/blade/spear) would be 4,390 gp. Resistance 10 would be 17,575.

Lesser battle bands would cost 39,550 gp; battle bands would cost 158,200 gp. Sounds about right, wouldn't you say?

[Verandis]

Useless knowledge, and sorry for the late reply. I just now remembered where to find it...

They put something similar in the Complete Warrior as a quality that can be added to armor; it's the equiv cost of a +2 bonus for each type or resistance you want. I can't tell you if this is balanced or unbalanced; nobody's ever wanted armor with this quality in any game I've played or run.

[Kerrick]

They put something similar in the Complete Warrior as a quality that can be added to armor; it's the equiv cost of a +2 bonus for each type or resistance you want. I can't tell you if this is balanced or unbalanced; nobody's ever wanted armor with this quality in any game I've played or run.

What are we talking here, damage resistance 5? That's definitely not worth a +2 bonus. DR 5 is pretty well useless to anyone over L8-10 anyway; by that time, the stuff you're fighting does way more damage.

[gwydion2]

What are we talking here, damage resistance 5? That's definitely not worth a +2 bonus. DR 5 is pretty well useless to anyone over L8-10 anyway; by that time, the stuff you're fighting does way more damage.

I totally disagree. It's not about whether DR5 completely stops the damage or not, it's the cumulative effect.

Lets compare the relative worth of +2 AC and DR5

Lets say you are being attacked by something powerful.
This can normaly hit you on an 11 (50% hit chance)
With +2 armour, you will be hit on a 13 (40% hit chance)

After 10 attacks against you with the DR 5 item, it will have stopped 25 damage (5 each from the 5 that hit)
The +2 armour will have stopped 1 hit out of the 10.
In this instance, unless the average damage of the creature hitting you is more than 25, you would be better with the DR 5

Of course, if the attacker has a lower chance to hit, the numbers change.

If it can normaly hit you on an 17 (20% hit chance)
With +2 armour, you will be hit on a 19 (10% hit chance)

After 10 attacks against you with the DR 5 item, it will have stopped 10 damage (5 each from the 2 that hit)
The +2 armour will have stopped 1 hit out of the 10.
In this instance, if the average damage of the creature hitting you is more than 10, you would be better with the +2 ac.

Generally though, The creatures that can hit you hard, have a decent chance to hit. DR5 is very valuable at any level, if you can't get a better DR. People tend to obsess about AC as they prefer not to be hit at all if they can avoid it, but against real danger, that isn't an option and DR will make a big difference.

+2 armour will of course work against all physical attacks, not just one damage type, so that's a consideration too.
Finally players are not always going to be chosing between +2ac and DR 5. If they can have both, they will have both.

Sorry if this turned out a bit rambling. I just like to see all the possibilities.

[A Wanderer]

Mitigation is almost always better than avoidance. It's much harder to heal spike damage than sustained damage.

[Kerrick]

I totally disagree. It's not about whether DR5 completely stops the damage or not, it's the cumulative effect.

Lets compare the relative worth of +2 AC and DR5

We're talking damage resistance, not damage reduction. I fully agree that damage reduction 5/- is definitely worth a +2 bonus. Damage resistance 5 (against one damage type) is not.

Finally players are not always going to be chosing between +2ac and DR 5. If they can have both, they will have both.

Of course they are - they're going to have the best enchantments they can afford. DR always wins out over enhancement bonuses, IMO. Even damage resistance against one type could be more useful than a minor bonus, if it's high enough; my main's got res 10 vs. slashing, and I usually wear that over my +1 leather because it's more useful overall - her AC is only 22, but she can shrug off a lot of damage because of the DR. When she wears the +1 leather and her lesser battle bands, she doesn't do as well.

[Adm.Venge]

I totally disagree. It's not about whether DR5 completely stops the damage or not, it's the cumulative effect.

Lets compare the relative worth of +2 AC and DR5

We're talking damage resistance, not damage reduction. I fully agree that damage reduction 5/- is definitely worth a +2 bonus. Damage resistance 5 (against one damage type) is not.

Seems to be a bit of confusion here.

Damage Reduction in 3.0 (and NWN1) is the "+1 soak 5" type of damage avoidance. If you are doing something for 3.5, this has been changed to the material property of the weapon, ie "10/cold iron", meaning that the target will always resist 10 points of damage unless struck by a cold iron weapon. Damage Reduction only applies to physical damage dealt by weapons.

Damage Resistance is of the "5/- Slashing" type that you are referring to. Whether it's 5/- Physical or /5- Piercing it's still considered Damage Resistance. This type of damage avoidance can be against any type of damage, and is very difficult to bypass.

[Kerrick]

Damage Resistance is of the "5/- Slashing" type that you are referring to. Whether it's 5/- Physical or /5- Piercing it's still considered Damage Resistance. This type of damage avoidance can be against any type of damage, and is very difficult to bypass.

No, I'm talking about a flat 5/-. Effectively, hardness, like what a barbarian gets. That is damage reduction, and is worth a +2 market value bonus. Resistance 5 vs. slashing/piercing/blunt (what's referred to as 5/- slashing/etc. in NWN) is not.