My review of NWN2

[Fifty]

I am having trouble setting up the zoom and camera. And even after upgrading my computer it is only just up to the job. Thus, I am finding it hard to enjoy the game. I may need to wait until I get a new computer next year to get much out of it.

[Albion]

177 page thick manual in pdf form

Can sombody in Europe confirm that we get the crappy PDF manual. And has anybody got an explanation why the USA gets a proper manual and Europe gets the PDF.

[swoods]

177 page thick manual in pdf form

Can sombody in Europe confirm that we get the crappy PDF manual. And has anybody got an explanation why the USA gets a proper manual and Europe gets the PDF.

Yes we get the full manual as a pdf, there's a short booklet in the box which gives you a lowdown on whats changed etc.. The game is quite straightforward though. Just takes a bit of time getting used to stuff.

[gwydion2]

Got to play it last night on a friends computer (his is just about capable on minimum settings where mine isn't).

Mostly I liked it, though I was getting a lot of lag due to the barely adequate processor. The camera control was very awkward though, especially indoors, where you kept being put in a positon where you couldn't see anything with a wall in the way. Even tuned to maximum response speed, the camera rotation was too slow, but that may be improved on a better computer or possibly with a patch.
I also felt that you couldn't zoom out far enough to give you a real idea what was going on around you. Particularly difficult when running into rooms to fight and not knowing where you were getting attacked from.

Keyboard control was very difficult, as your character turned too rapidly and tended to end up running back in the wrong direction if I held the key a fraction of a second too long.

The look of the scenery is great though. I love the detail as it give a much more realistic setting. The pathfinding seems a lot cleverer than NWN1 most of the time too, which is refreshing.
I like the addition of much more quickslots. Thats something I've always felt spellcasters needed in NWN. The icons in quickslot and inventory are a bit too small for easy recognition though, which could take some getting used to.

All in all, I think it's a fairly good came, that could be a great game when it's actually finished.

[Emprod]

It took me 3 days to realize that ability bonuses don't stack. Doh!

i.e. my rogue has
+3 dex from boots
+1 from bracers
+1 from a belt
and an item that casts Cats Grace (+4)

All used together I get +4. (the highest bonus?)

With none of the gear equipped and Cats cast... I get +4.

I suppose this is more in line with how D&D rules intends it to be?

[neurotap]

It took me 3 days to realize that ability bonuses don't stack. Doh!

i.e. my rogue has
+3 dex from boots
+1 from bracers
+1 from a belt
and an item that casts Cats Grace (+4)

All used together I get +4. (the highest bonus?)

With none of the gear equipped and Cats cast... I get +4.

I suppose this is more in line with how D&D rules intends it to be?

thats exactly how it is in dnd iirc

[Darkfire]

you mean items and spells wont even stack?


pfft lame!

I dont do enough DnD, never gotten any items that had bonuses anyways, lol. So I really have no clue. Just think that is teh sux0r

[Savagej]

LOL

Some things never change.

+2

[Baralis Truthbender]

Well what seemed to play flawlessly on my mates pc doesn't work on mine
Game is lagging severely even with all the settings down and some other problems...meaning I won't be able to enjoy it untill I upgrade the old junkheap with some extra RAM and probably a new video card.

[denor firefly]

Well what seemed to play flawlessly on my mates pc doesn't work on mine
Game is lagging severely even with all the settings down and some other problems...meaning I won't be able to enjoy it untill I upgrade the old junkheap with some extra RAM and probably a new video card.

Get it for newyear mate. If you need a good pc check out eurosys in hasselt. You can completely choose the hardware for your pc there!

The game vs game views are pointless and if you don't like the game this is not the place to express your opinion in such a manner. And please do not feel offended...

[Aloro]

FYI, we will not be using the NWN2 crafting system. Avlis 2 is using a completely new crafting system. We have developed it to keep what everyone loved about Avlis' system, like it not being tied to class levels and researching recipes; and improved it to remove the things that caused problems like grinding 100's or 1,000's of items to gain a level, and the amount of FOIG that made it difficult to learn the system.

I hope these improvements are going to migrate back to Avlis1?

The new systems intended for Avlis2 won't be implemented on Avlis1.

- Aloro

[Tesh]

my PC : P4 2.6 multithreading ,GeForce 6600GT 128 MB 1GB RAM,250GB HD WindowsXP PRO SP2 updated with the latest patches.

Heh you bitch and moan about LAG and poor performance.

Your rig is barely about minimum requirements.

Upgrade then give an opinion based on a rig that is at least reccomended.

[Cromagnon]

It took me 3 days to realize that ability bonuses don't stack. Doh!

i.e. my rogue has
+3 dex from boots
+1 from bracers
+1 from a belt
and an item that casts Cats Grace (+4)

All used together I get +4. (the highest bonus?)

With none of the gear equipped and Cats cast... I get +4.

I suppose this is more in line with how D&D rules intends it to be?

thats exactly how it is in dnd iirc

I looked through the PH and the DM guide briefly, but didn't find anything on this.

[Nightface]

FYI, we will not be using the NWN2 crafting system. Avlis 2 is using a completely new crafting system. We have developed it to keep what everyone loved about Avlis' system, like it not being tied to class levels and researching recipes; and improved it to remove the things that caused problems like grinding 100's or 1,000's of items to gain a level, and the amount of FOIG that made it difficult to learn the system.

I hope these improvements are going to migrate back to Avlis1?

The new systems intended for Avlis2 won't be implemented on Avlis1.

- Aloro

Are you referring to the actual coding, or the general philosophy behind the crafting system? My question was actually aimed at the latter, though my question, in retrospect, could probably have been phrased a bit more clearly.

[Nightface]

It took me 3 days to realize that ability bonuses don't stack. Doh!

i.e. my rogue has
+3 dex from boots
+1 from bracers
+1 from a belt
and an item that casts Cats Grace (+4)

All used together I get +4. (the highest bonus?)

With none of the gear equipped and Cats cast... I get +4.

I suppose this is more in line with how D&D rules intends it to be?

thats exactly how it is in dnd iirc

I looked through the PH and the DM guide briefly, but didn't find anything on this.

I'll try to find exact pages, but for now trust me: bonuses of the same type do not stack, unless otherwise specified (like Dodge bonuses to AC). Buff spells provide an Enhancement bonus to stats, as do magic items, therefore they do not stack.

EDIT: Found it, PHB p171 (Bonus Types, left hand column near the top) and DMG p21 (practically the whole page)

[neurotap]

It took me 3 days to realize that ability bonuses don't stack. Doh!

i.e. my rogue has
+3 dex from boots
+1 from bracers
+1 from a belt
and an item that casts Cats Grace (+4)

All used together I get +4. (the highest bonus?)

With none of the gear equipped and Cats cast... I get +4.

I suppose this is more in line with how D&D rules intends it to be?

thats exactly how it is in dnd iirc

I looked through the PH and the DM guide briefly, but didn't find anything on this.

I'll try to find exact pages, but for now trust me: bonuses of the same type do not stack, unless otherwise specified (like Dodge bonuses to AC). Buff spells provide an Enhancement bonus to stats, as do magic items, therefore they do not stack.

EDIT: Found it, PHB p171 (Bonus Types, left hand column near the top) and DMG p21 (practically the whole page)

It's like that because items with bonus properties like that are supposed to be rare and spectacular finds and you usually are not going to get more than one item with the same enchanment unless it is more powerful.

Thats why in high level dnd campaigns characters will have LOTS of bonuses, because they dont want to waste an equipment slot on on something that they already have.

thats why if you look on the dm loot tables you only going to find a handful or less items with same bonus properties, cuz they dont stack.

I like that they kept this rule from dnd, it keeps characters from getting too uber to the point that the game no longer becomes challenging. potions arent supposed to be bought in bulk, ration what you have, the big bucks are for that powerful sword and killer glowing armor that really keeps your character form getting killed in the first place.

[Vergilius]

Not having a "stack" of bonuses means that people will cope. Well-designed encounters tend to match the characters, whether they have lots of bonuses via gear or no bonuses. In other words, gear bonuses in the end should be no biggie; it only means that NWN 2 will play differently from NWN 1.

[chamalscuro]

I just recently bought a new computer. It's fit for NWN2, but I haven't gotten the game yet.

The neat thing is playing Avlis NWN1 on the new box. Wow! I've never seen the game like this. I've got all the settings maxed out, and Avlis looks gorgeous!

[xarontas84]

my PC : P4 2.6 multithreading ,GeForce 6600GT 128 MB 1GB RAM,250GB HD WindowsXP PRO SP2 updated with the latest patches.

Heh you bitch and moan about LAG and poor performance.

Your rig is barely about minimum requirements.

Upgrade then give an opinion based on a rig that is at least reccomended.

And buy what? A dual core? Well read this first.



_____________________________________________
Yes, NWN2 only uses one core. If we wanted to take complete advantage of multi core systems we would need to architect for it from the ground up or do a refactoring of some of the core engine components, which we didn't do on this project because we licensed the technology from Bioware. Typically, the second core is used for physics simulations, which we don't have in NWN2.

The good news is that the game isn't CPU bound for most systems. The largest bottleneck is on the GPU or your video card, and in most situations we are pixel bound. So no matter how fast the CPU is chugging along, it's always going to be waiting for the GPU to render the frame.

We've made it pretty clear during the project that the toolset is the only part of NWN2 that takes advantage of multi core systems, since we wrote the toolset from the ground up. However, we are looking for simple ways of incorporating support for dual core systems in the game, so users with super machines can feel happy that their computer is being used to it's fullest potential. Don't get your hopes too high though, but it is something that is being considered for the future.

Thanks,
-Brennecke
_________________
Adam Brennecke
Obsidian Entertainment
________________________________________________

http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/vi ... =109&sp=15

So i am supposingly needing a GPU
Still for all the other games out there my processor is supposed to be the "weak link" in the processing chain and not my video card . I wouldn't be upgrading the video card just for this game. If i was to upgrade i would get a Core 2 Duo with all the rest . In fact i am waiting Windows Vista before i upgrade.
(btw i totally hate Windows Vista , WindowsXP were working just fine and had converted me to a friend of Microsoft, looks like i am going to hate Microsoft once again but i will be needing to play a game with DirectX10 at some point so i will end up to them eventualy .....)

As i said before i wouldn't have a problem get the latest video card if the game's graphics was worthing it. But it doesn't. Because i have played the game with all settings to highest quality and it wasn't worth it. Why spend so much to get a visual that is not worthing?
Why spend so much to make the game play a bit better? (and I am saying "a bit" because even people with Core 2 Duo have small lag hits with it)
It will still have these horrible 3d models, bad animations, bad combat animations bad spell casting animations and effects,hard targeting, old looking and impractical user interface etc etc.... So why upgrade? For the only purpose to make all this mess to run a bit faster?

[Tesh]

I didn't say buy a dual core.

you have a 2.6 GHz CPU....

The reccomended is a 3.0 GHz or equivalent.

Also Dual Core is the way to go if you have the $$ and use the toolset, the GAME doesn't use it but the TOOLSET does....

You should also just THINK about what you read, just because this dev says:
"The good news is that the game isn't CPU bound for most systems. The largest bottleneck is on the GPU or your video card"
Doesn't mean that isn't the case for you with your below reccomended specs CPU....

[neurotap]

I didn't say buy a dual core.

you have a 2.6 GHz CPU....

The reccomended is a 3.0 GHz or equivalent.

Also Dual Core is the way to go if you have the $$ and use the toolset, the GAME doesn't use it but the TOOLSET does....

You should also just THINK about what you read, just because this dev says:
"The good news is that the game isn't CPU bound for most systems. The largest bottleneck is on the GPU or your video card"
Doesn't mean that isn't the case for you with your below reccomended specs CPU....

Well, I got a good reason to upgrade to that 7600GT finally.

[Aloro]

Are you referring to the actual coding, or the general philosophy behind the crafting system? My question was actually aimed at the latter, though my question, in retrospect, could probably have been phrased a bit more clearly.

Neither the design of the new Avlis2 systems, nor the coded implementations thereof, will be found in Avlis1. Those are new ideas for the new game.

- Aloro

[Nightface]

Neither the design of the new Avlis2 systems, nor the coded implementations thereof, will be found in Avlis1. Those are new ideas for the new game.

and improved it to remove the things that caused problems like grinding 100's or 1,000's of items to gain a level, and the amount of FOIG that made it difficult to learn the system

So, in what way are the crafting grind and FOIG-runaround going to be eliminated? Surely a similar concept could be adapted to Avlis1 in order to make crafting more enjoyable for all Avlis players, yes?

[loppy66]

I just enjoy playing NWN2 now. It is something new and fresh. You need to get used a lot of new stuff. But i think some things will turn out to be awesome. And my opinion is exactly what a lot of have mentioned. Patches will come to fix a lot of this stuff what will satisfy most of you. The combat mode surely is something odd if you compare the two games however i think one will get used to it. The walking and the missing TAB key etc, is not a problem if you use the new commands. Just played little now, but would recommend to anyone, really.

*is really curious about the crafting in Avlis2 and Avlis2*

[dougnoel]

FYI, the Tab key functionality isn't missing. If you go through the tutorial, you will see it has just been remapped to 'Z'. It's like the second or third tutorial pop-up.

Neither the design of the new Avlis2 systems, nor the coded implementations thereof, will be found in Avlis1. Those are new ideas for the new game.

and improved it to remove the things that caused problems like grinding 100's or 1,000's of items to gain a level, and the amount of FOIG that made it difficult to learn the system

So, in what way are the crafting grind and FOIG-runaround going to be eliminated? Surely a similar concept could be adapted to Avlis1 in order to make crafting more enjoyable for all Avlis players, yes?

The grind is being eliminated by employing a brand-new system. The FOIG bit is being eliminated by eliminating the extensive need for FOIG and documenting the system fully before we build it, and then providing that documentation to the players on the wiki. FOIG-confusion is also being eliminated by creating introductory crafting quests that explain all the different crafts for those interested.

I would say that there are no plans to implement A2 systems into A1 at this point. Anything is possible. However the systems are in this case so wildly different that pushing changes back would require a redeisgn of the A1 System. Another reason for not pushing back changes is that they would unbalance the A1 economy even more. It is possible to tweak the A1 systems in some small ways, such as reducing grinding - but we probably won't be doing that until we prove to ourselves that the new system is balanced. Unfortunately, the best answer I can give you now is wait and see.

We have no plans to redo any of A1's major systems. we do plan on finishing some like artificing. Beyond that, it depends on who is willing to work on A1. If we have a brilliant coder who wants to fix systems on A1, then we may go that route. What you have to realize is that there really isn't anyone on the A1 Team at this point who can do a system overhaul at this point other than myself - and I am putting that effort into NWNX4 and Avlis2.

Finally, I'd like to point out that a lot of answers about the new system are going to be vague until we have them nailed down. Explaining systems that aren't fully designed just wastes our time trying to explain things to everyone when we could be spending that time more productively in design.

--------------------------------------------------------------
@Everyone
Finally, I would appreciate it if the negativity would stop. A1 is not going to kill A2. A2 is not going to kill A1. With the exception of myself, people will be either on the A1 or the A2 Team - not both. We're building up both Teams - not destroying one or the other. We have enough resources because we continue to pull in NWN players as other PWs go down and we will pull in plenty of NWN2 players as the A2 world goes up. If you really want to help Avlis, in all it's incarnations, subscribe to [url=http:///www.worldforgemagazine.com]WFM[/url].

Doug