drowning considered a death attack

[downsystem]

Ok here is the situation. I logged in put on my deathward helmet and less then a half minute later i commence to fight some water elementals and died when i failed my save on a role of one, which is the only role that could kill me normally with no save adjusting items on. If the helmet worked the way i would think it would work it would of put me in the safe area and not being subject to being intstantly killed. So i ask is a Drowning death attack considered a death attack when it comes to specific items that give save bonus for death attacks, or should i consider this a bug.

[terror2001]

If your helmet only provides Save bonuses, then a roll of 1 will still kill you on a death attack without other protections.

[Glantry]

Q: So i ask is a Drowning death attack considered a death attack when it comes to specific items that give save bonus for death attacks, or should i consider this a bug.

A: Just blame Snow

[Darkfire]

If your helmet only provides Save bonuses, then a roll of 1 will still kill you on a death attack without other protections.

if it is on Avlis, rolling a 1 is not an autofail. If its in a different mod/single player, I believe it is still that way. (unless of course the said mod also changed it)

[apandapion]

If your helmet only provides Save bonuses, then a roll of 1 will still kill you on a death attack without other protections.

I thought autofail-on-one was off. I've fought a great number of petrifing creatures, and none of them has ever turned me to stone since my fort save moved over the DC.

[terror2001]

We'll have to have a Team member answer the autofail-on-one question if it's on or off.

In the game's unchanged rules, rolling a 1 for a skill check is not autofail. Rolling a 1 on any other kind of roll (saves, attacks, etc.) is an autofail.

[Grunt]

In NWN (this forum not the Avlis one) Drown shouldn't be a save vs death. It's a fortitude save vs taking 90% of your hitpoints in damage.

So if you were injured and at 90% or less of your full hitpoints, and got drowned...you died.

[Moredo]

Unless I'm way off base, autofail was turned off on Avlis the moment Bioware allowed for it.

Also, there are two different Drown attacks: The Druid spell and the Water Elemential Racial Feat.

Spell takes 90%, Elem feat is 'Death Magic' (though will only drop you to bleeding on Avlis).

[Tigg]

Moredo's 100% right.. and thank heavens autofail is turned off.

It still begs the question, though, of why Downsystem got killed by the water elementals' attack. Downsystem, look at your char sheet or examine yourself.. does it say death-magic immune?

[downsystem]

Im playing on avlis ofcourse so maybe its a avlis general ? instead. The helmet doesnt get death immunity It only gives +2 to death saves. Which to my thinking woutld be a +2 to your fort and a +2 to will when death attack that uses saves hits you. Now if Grunt is correct then Drown isnt considered a death attack, but more of a harm spell affect and my rolling 1 would of been, which would of made my modifier of 17 a 18 and undernieth what i needed to make the save correct and i should of died.

I Didnt look at my combat info to see if it was damage dealt that took all the hitpoints away, but it sure as heck seemed like a instead death. Probably got nocked into my death plane with a hit or something.

[neurotap]

The helmet doesnt get death immunity It only gives +2 to death saves. Which to my thinking woutld be a +2 to your fort and a +2 to will when death attack that uses saves hits you.

if it just gives a +2 vs death then it will not give +2 to fort as that would apply to every fort save. it's just a +2 vs death attacks. you don't get a +4 total from a +2 item. math man, math.

[Darkfire]

The helmet doesnt get death immunity It only gives +2 to death saves. Which to my thinking woutld be a +2 to your fort and a +2 to will when death attack that uses saves hits you.

if it just gives a +2 vs death then it will not give +2 to fort as that would apply to every fort save. it's just a +2 vs death attacks. you don't get a +4 total from a +2 item. math man, math.

he meant a +2 versus death as this...


+2 versus death attack that is agaisnt fortitude (adding +2 fort)

+2 versus death attack that is agaisnt will (adding +2 will)

saying that ~if~ the water attack was considered a "death attack" (as in something the helm would block agaisnt) his fort should of been high enough to beat the said DC.

If im wrong just shoot me or something.

[Tigg]

Just throwing an idea out there.. is it possible the due to some oddness with it being a feat instead of a spell, the DC got lowered instead?

[Sathsarrion]

I know Shadow Shield makes you immune to the elementals Drown attack, but that works against all instant death effects. Is it possible that the helmet makes a distinction between magical and non magical effects? Maybe it wont do anything at all against feats

[Alphonse]

The water and ice elemental drown attacks have always sent Al direct to bleeding, even with full health

[downsystem]

The helmet doesnt get death immunity It only gives +2 to death saves. Which to my thinking woutld be a +2 to your fort and a +2 to will when death attack that uses saves hits you.

if it just gives a +2 vs death then it will not give +2 to fort as that would apply to every fort save. it's just a +2 vs death attacks. you don't get a +4 total from a +2 item. math man, math.

he meant a +2 versus death as this...


+2 versus death attack that is agaisnt fortitude (adding +2 fort)

+2 versus death attack that is agaisnt will (adding +2 will)

saying that ~if~ the water attack was considered a "death attack" (as in something the helm would block agaisnt) his fort should of been high enough to beat the said DC.

If im wrong just shoot me or something.

Your right thats what i meant darkfire. Notice at the end i said against "When a death attack that uses saves hits ya"

[loki70]

So, it should work on Dev Crit. Just like Death Ward should, though it doesn't come up a lot really. I do know that Death Ward negates drowning attacks, since they are coded as spell-like abilities. Works on Siren song and all those nasty spells like weird and wail.

[gwydion2]

i commence to fight some water elementals and died when i failed my save on a role of one, which is the only role that could kill me normally with no save adjusting items on.

Do you remember the numbers in that save? Any save modifiers vs death would have been factored straight into your bonus. If that was enough to beat the DC then you would have survived, otherwise not. Autofail 1 is definately off on Avlis and has been for a long time.

If the total save bonus you were given, was the same as your general fortitude save on your character sheet, then for some reason the attack was not being qualified as a death magic attack. Not enough information here to tell if that was the case though.

I know my saves can vary, dependant on how good my stat buffs were that day. Maybe you just didnt roll well on your endurance buff, so your save with the helm was no better than your save without the helm normally? I don't know what buffs you had, so I'm just speculating.

[neurotap]

It only gives +2 to death saves. Which to my thinking woutld be a +2 to your fort and a +2 to will when death attack that uses saves hits you.

this part messed with me, i see what your saying now.

for once, i retract the statement that makes me look like an ass.

[chamalscuro]

So, it should work on Dev Crit. Just like Death Ward should, though it doesn't come up a lot really. I do know that Death Ward negates drowning attacks, since they are coded as spell-like abilities. Works on Siren song and all those nasty spells like weird and wail.

http://www.nwnwiki.org/Weird

Though Weird is saddled with two saving throws, its benefit is that it bypasses immunity to death magic and effects.

[Micah]

So, it should work on Dev Crit. Just like Death Ward should, though it doesn't come up a lot really. I do know that Death Ward negates drowning attacks, since they are coded as spell-like abilities. Works on Siren song and all those nasty spells like weird and wail.

http://www.nwnwiki.org/Weird

Though Weird is saddled with two saving throws, its benefit is that it bypasses immunity to death magic and effects.

And defeated by a 1st level spell FTW!

[downsystem]

In the spell description for wierd it says immunity type: fear. So if thats the case does a belt that gives fear immunity make you immune to that spell or just some of the affects.

I already said what my saves that cause me to fail in my earlier post.

[chamalscuro]

So, it should work on Dev Crit. Just like Death Ward should, though it doesn't come up a lot really. I do know that Death Ward negates drowning attacks, since they are coded as spell-like abilities. Works on Siren song and all those nasty spells like weird and wail.

http://www.nwnwiki.org/Weird

Though Weird is saddled with two saving throws, its benefit is that it bypasses immunity to death magic and effects.

And defeated by a 1st level spell FTW!

Not against a Neutral-aligned character.

Plus, a lot of PCs and monsters neglect to use that protective spell.

[chamalscuro]

In the spell description for wierd it says immunity type: fear. So if thats the case does a belt that gives fear immunity make you immune to that spell or just some of the affects.

I already said what my saves that cause me to fail in my earlier post.

Then the belt should work as advertised.