Epic Dodge?

Aeveras · Post by **Aeveras** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:26 pm

A little background: one of the builders has been building a deathtrap, and it's going to be awesome. During testing (hosted by the builder), we imported our characters, and at one point had our levels bumped up to scale with the dungeon. Turns out, quite accidentally, my character will at one point qualify for epic dodge. This is a long, long, long time away, so there's lots of time to think about it, but I'm curious how many of you would consider this a useful, sort of useful, or extremely useful feat.

In a straight 1v1 melee brawl, this means that at least one attack is going to miss, and I've noticed that it keeps "in queue" up until that point. If the first attack would hit, epic dodge kicks in. Done. If the first attack would miss, but the second would hit, epic dodge kicks in for the second attack instead. This is extremely useful. Avlis, however, tends to involve some pretty large monster spawns, and so it's not always a matter of avoiding one out of two or three attacks, but avoiding one out of say ten or fifteen.

As well, Veras doesn't exactly have great AC. Epic dodge would be a great feat on an AC build; monsters have trouble hitting you, and the one time they do, epic dodge kicks in. In my case however, I get hit quite often if I enter melee, and usually drop to bleeding shortly thereafter. Epic dodge is still eating one attack, but how useful is that in the long run?

(And yeah, there's the additional qualifier that Veras is an archer and shouldn't be getting into brawls... but that's another story).

So, opinions, ideas, experience, suggestions, and limmericks welcome.

- Aeveras

Xandor Amakiir · Post by **Xandor Amakiir** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:32 pm

Xandor is built with low hp and really hard to hit. Epic dodge i want it bad, but i need a lot more levels before i can achieve it, mainly cause his main is Bard and i need one extra rogue feat...

But if i ever make it that far ((at least level 30)) i wil absolutly take it...

Krator · Post by **Krator** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:32 pm

If you can get it, take it. It's an awesome feat, especially on Avlis.

Fire Monkey · Post by **Fire Monkey** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:34 pm

Epic Dodge kicks ass. It not only takes out one attack per round but it takes out the one with the highest AB.

Tharliss · Post by **Tharliss** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:42 pm

Krator wrote:If you can get it, take it. It's an awesome feat, especially on Avlis.

Agreed. Epic Dodge is probably the best defensive Feat you can take in the game.

I also like the rp behind: You basically have such a high dexterity and combat awareness that you can anticipate and completely dodge a swing by the most skilled of warriors. If you have a decent AC to go along with Epic Dodge, you'll rarely get hit.

storminj · Post by **storminj** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:45 pm

Well no matter what you need to be level 27 to get the prerequisite of 30 ranks tumble I believe.

I am workin on it for Friday but will take at least until level 28 if not 30. It is a pretty intensive thing because of the dex requirement.

Gladenfar · Post by **Gladenfar** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:51 pm

Your right Aeveras.. it is a great feat, but primarily for the high ac type chars. It may be kind of wasted if your ac isnt very high. You'll still get pounded if your surrounded by a bunch of monsters. But it still will take away one hit per round.

Aeveras · Post by **Aeveras** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:53 pm

Well, yes and no. Oddly enough, I was able to take it with only 27 ranks in tumble, which means it's possible to get it at level 24 at the earliest (assuming the feat and ability score requirements are met). Anyhow, so far I'm seeing a pretty positive response, though I'm still interested in hearing more -- especially any criticism of its usefulness

- Aeveras

myzmar · Post by **myzmar** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:53 pm

/me cries that one needs to be a rogue to get that feat. poor monks

Daemona · Post by **Daemona** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:54 pm

Great feat that I will be taking. It also ruins monks quivering palm in 1v1 and possible power attack.

*looks at the post above* Dae is a monk and the SD gets at level 5.

Tigg · Post by **Tigg** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:05 pm

I had this feat in the past on a character elsewhere, and I can tell you it's priceless for a flanker who needs to run away for a few moments here and there in a fight, to let the baddies refocus on the tanks. Also when the NPC monsters are doing their combat feats (most importantly, knockdown), they don't usually do it other than the first attack in the round, meaning you can dodge that one and take off running.

To clarify a couple things, though:
-if the first attack misses, epic dodge will not apply to the second attack. It applies only to the first attack made on your character in a round, which will always miss, due either to them not hitting your AC or Epic Dodge taking effect if they would have.
-in mob situations it's still of course useful to have that attack miss, but much less handy, since your Epic Dodge opportunity could easily be eaten up by an attack by a lower-ab attacker being the first attack of the round, meanwhile another attacker with a much higher AB could slip in right under that first attack on the combat log.

-perhaps most importantly, the qualifications for the feat are not as per the manual, it's simply an epic feat for which the prereqs are base dex 25, 1 rank of tumble, defensive roll, and improved evasion. with the right build you can get it as soon as level 21.

Aeveras · Post by **Aeveras** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:13 pm

I loaded up Veras in a test module actually, and found that epic dodge can and will trigger on the second attack if the first misses. Against a fighter with four attacks, it went like this:

Round 1:

*hits AC* -- epic dodge kicks in and negates
*hit*
*miss*
*miss*

ROund 2:

*miss*
*hit* -- epic dodge kicks in here instead*
*hit*
*miss*

I'll have to test this one a bit more, but that was my findings.

- Aeveras

Froggy · Post by **Froggy** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:15 pm

Here's what I found on NWN wiki

Prerequisite: Dex 25, Tumble 1, 21st level, Defensive Roll, Improved Evasion
* Requires Hordes of the Underdark.
* Most NWN manuals state that Dodge is a prerequisite, but it is not.
* Contrary to the description, you only need a single rank in Tumble (not 30 as stated in the manual).
* Additionally, the description for this feat is misleading. Epic Dodge actually causes a character to automatically evade the first successful attack in a round, not simply the first attack in a round.
* Epic Dodge only applies to your current target or latest attacker.

So the manual is wrong again. Never took this feet before. But seems very useful to dex based rogue. Even if Dex requirement is bit high.

Moredo · Post by **Moredo** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:18 pm

Yep, yep. One of the best feats out there. Shame only Rogues and Shadow Dancers can take it.

myzmar · Post by **myzmar** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:29 pm

Moredo wrote:Yep, yep. One of the best feats out there. Shame only Rogues and Shadow Dancers can take it.

Yes

Then on the bright side, I should have 50% self-concealment some day

Marleh · Post by **Marleh** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:32 pm

Wait, what are the true requirements again?

Tigg · Post by **Tigg** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:38 pm

base dex 25, improved evasion, defensive roll, 1 rank of tumble

and.. this 'first attack that hits' thing was definitely not my experience, from having played a character with epic dodge for a good while... but, I dunno, did it get changed in a patch?

Fuzz · Post by **Fuzz** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:19 pm

Damn good for staying alive, though if you ever want to have a friendly duel with someone I think it's sort of lame since you can't tun it off.

Arnimane · Post by **Arnimane** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:11 pm

Add in Self conceal for some real fun.

Jorik Ambrose · Post by **Jorik Ambrose** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:53 am

It is a great feat!

I was offered it at lvl 24 as well, but chickened out in case it was a bug, so waited until lvl 27 to take it. It has saved Cel's butt more than once, and is fantastic.

I guess the choice is if you don't take it, is there something else more valuable and IC with your build? If so take that, if not you won't regret Epic Dodge.