Discipline skill & usefulness

Naever · Post by **Naever** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:54 am

Okay...looking at playing a martial oriented baddie.

How useful is the discipline skill on Avlis. I know that it affects knockdown, disarm etc...

How often would it be used in game?

darthmullet · Post by **darthmullet** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:57 am

I love it...just ask the dwarven mercs!

For real though...I find the skill very useful.

Arnimane · Post by **Arnimane** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:00 am

It IS your friend.

Post by **Jazz** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:00 am

I don't. I don't get knockdowned very often, let alone disarmed, so I'm glad I didn't put any points in Discipline. It's too bad though.
But maybe I'm just never in the places where I should need it?

Dralix · Post by **Dralix** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:01 am

Naever wrote: How often would it be used in game?

I think you already answered your own question

Naever wrote: I know that it affects knockdown, disarm etc...

It would be used whenever someone tries to knock you down or disarm you. Two things you probably don't want to happen to you.

Naever · Post by **Naever** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:11 am

Well...

From the responses so far it would seem that players run around smacking weapons out of peoples hands and knock tham on their asses

Good to know...

Moredo · Post by **Moredo** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:13 am

Discipline is the main skill for any fighterish character!

A fighter doesn't have too many things he (or she) is good at, but dishing out damage in a melee is one of them. You can't do that if you don't have your weapon, or if you're lying on the floor.

Edit: Spelling

Rhissaerk Jalesh · Post by **Rhissaerk Jalesh** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:13 am

Quite a few NPC's utilize it as well. It's a good skill to keep up if you can put points into it. If you plan to engage in CvC, it's a huge boon.

Dark_EK · Post by **Dark_EK** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:29 am

A fighter without discpline is not a real fighter IMO

I keep it maxed whenever I can.

Post by **Jazz** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:33 am

The problem with Discipline is that it's got to be pretty high before it has any useful effect. If it's much lower than your AC it's of no use.

dannyschil · Post by **dannyschil** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:42 am

Jazz wrote:The problem with Discipline is that it's got to be pretty high before it has any useful effect. If it's much lower than your AC it's of no use.

poor Discipline he will be so lonely.

VETT SCALES L7 · Post by **VETT SCALES L7** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:37 am

Discipline is great and handy. You'll thank yourself for taking it when those oozes don't rip your armour off and leave you naked (while you laugh at the others that don't make their disc checks!).

Jazz is right though. You have to pay into it for it to pay off.

Naieth · Post by **Naieth** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:19 am

Something that is hinted at but worth writing down in words;

Discipline is very important if your character fights other characters (CvC). Knockdown is used a lot in these fights, and one of the key ways of protecting against it is Discipline. If you'd ask around you'll notice that many of the old M'Chek/T'Nanshi war veterans have a lot of Discipline - it simply kept them alive.

So, if you can see your character fighting other PC's (extermist, law enforcer, assasin, etc etc) then it might be very useful to invest in this skill. The ability to knock down your opponent or not is vital for many fights.

Also, words of truth:

The problem with Discipline is that it's got to be pretty high before it has any useful effect. If it's much lower than your AC it's of no use.

Arandil · Post by **Arandil** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:31 am

What Naieth said. My PCs discipline was between 40 and 50 by the end of the war, without buffs, and it saved his butt countless times, both against PCs and NPCs.

pedsdmd · Post by **pedsdmd** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:47 pm

Like many have said.

Vs. NPC's not too useful (barring DM involement)

Vs. PC's in Cvc (difference between life and death)

Aerill · Post by **Aerill** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:09 pm

Dark_EK wrote:A fighter without discpline is not a real fighter IMO

I keep it maxed whenever I can.

+1

Could not really max it with Aerill due to too few fighter levels, but I am definitely very glad that I have put a lot of points into it. Saved me a lot of trouble. Even if your AC is higher than your discipline skill, it still can save you whenever someone rolls a lucky 20 on their knockdown or disarm attack.

And yeah, what VETT said too. Saves the character the embarassment of becoming naked when encountering certain oozes.

dhocott · Post by **dhocott** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:34 pm

Discipline also helps when you are fighting close to other party members who have a tendency to miss click and end up knocking their friends down.

But when that happens it does lead to some pretty good RP.

Fire Monkey · Post by **Fire Monkey** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:23 pm

Discipline is great, keep it maxed otherwise its worthless.

The only reason fighter type characters can survive without discipline is because the AI of NPC's reads your AC and doesn't attempt to utilise the feats if it is unlikely they will hit you (i.e. if you have a high AC they don't even attempt Knockdown, disarm etc.)

Defender · Post by **Defender** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:33 pm

*reads above posts*

Yeah, what they said..

D

apandapion · Post by **apandapion** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:01 pm

From the Grimoire:

Knockdown
Type of Feat: General
Prerequisite: None
Required for: Improved Knockdown
Specifics: A character with this feat can attempt to knock his melee
opponents to the ground. The character makes an attack at -4, and if
successful the defender makes an opposed Discipline check against the
character’s attack roll. If the character wins, the defender is knocked to a
prone position.

So, in general, if your AC is much higher than your discipline, then discipline will not do you much good. If you have a 40 AC and a 10 discipline, your discipline will not stop anything that your AC wouldn't stop. If I understand that part right.

However, note that your AC is not often what you think it is. If you are flat footed, then you lose a number of different bonuses to your AC. If you are a dex based character, then discipline is of somewhat more concern (I would think), because in CvC (or CvDM) knockdown is a very common way for an invisible/stealthed foe to say hello. So if you have no discipline and a 40 AC but 15 points of it is lost when you are flatfooted, then it's pretty easy to knock you over and preforate your internal organs in alphebetical order.

Unless, of course, you lose the discipline check as well when flat-footed. I don't really know - I only have a theoretical knowledge of these matters.

pedsdmd · Post by **pedsdmd** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:12 pm

Could not really max it with Aerill due to too few fighter levels, but I am definitely very glad that I have put a lot of points into it. Saved me a lot of trouble. Even if your AC is higher than your discipline skill, it still can save you whenever someone rolls a lucky 20 on their knockdown or disarm attack.

And yeah, what VETT said too. Saves the character the embarassment of becoming naked when encountering certain oozes.

I am wondering, how does the -6 or -4 to hit factor into this? If they roll a natural 20 do they still take the negative roll into effect?

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Discipline skill & usefulness

Discipline skill & usefulness

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