use/equip un-ID'd Items & non-proficient weapons? DISCUS

[Darkfire]

I voted yeah, but I think there should be reprecutions for doing so. If you don't know how to properly use the magic that is within the item, you could misuse it and injure yourself, etc. But if you are allowed to use them, there should also be ones that have curses, etc that come along with them. Perhaps not being able to unequip it and it drains 5 life a turn, etc (( just an example ))

[apandapion]

Not everyone who plays knows enough about the system to know what they should be doing (weapons they are proficient in, etc). Letting them do things that they shouldn't be able to do badly is not a good idea - they will just do them and then wonder why they suck at it.

[dunniteowl]

I am glad this topic is being discussed here. I posted the poll and you saw why I posted it, however, it does not encapsulate my personal point of view on the issue.

Mine:
Cursed Items. If you cannot equip an item in the game unless it is ID'd, then cursed items, whether they be SP, MP or PW have no functional value.

Weapons not ID'd: Anyone that has the skill to use a weapon, whether ID'd or not ought to be able to use that weapon as if it were what it was, whether or not it was magically endowed with "extras." If not ID'd, then any "normal" enchantments, such as +1 to Hit, Blue glow, etc, will be apparent when equipped. It still doesn't tell the user just how magic the item is.

Non-Proficient Weapons: Let's say that you were a rogue and during the course of your adventure, you came across a situation where you had to do battle. Let's also say, that, for some reason (Oh, I don't know, like your weapon was sundered) you were without your trusty shortsword or dagger. In your pack is an obviously magical longsword and though you are not proficient with it, it is better than using your hands, so...

Another situation: The mage is out of spells, the cleric is out of spells and there is no recourse but to continue to make it back to town under dire circumstances. The fighter looks at the mage and says, "Well, if he can't cast spells, putting on this chain mail isn't going to cause a spell failure and might save his hide long enough to get back to town. Oh, and this here axe-- pretend you're chopping wood-- it should do something."

Oh yeah, and those potions that you don't know what they are-- the enemy is bearing down on you and you really can't afford to take another beating-- do you or don't you risk it and say, "I hope this is a healing potion or a potion of strength, otherwise, I'm toast?"

In the current setup of NWN and possibly in NWN2, none of these scenarios are possible without Community created override scripting. This ought not to be the case. In addition, things like picking up an item that has a specific class and alignment restriction would have greater consequence for those who pick them up.

Call all of the above RPG verite, if you will. It doesn't matter if the player is HCR, casual gamer or Joe Newbie, you cannot learn these things if the developers take the option away from you. The advertising on the box of NWN was such that it claimed that you could bring the PnP experience to the computer like never before. While, in many ways, this is true, one of the core staples of RPGs is to be able to use unidentified items and weapons; and (before anyone adds that lame argument about players not reading the manual again) have been implemented in some of the most successful cRPGs in their day. Bard's Tale had this, SSI's Gold Box "Pool of Radiance" series had this, Ultima had it. These were the games that sold before the explosion of PC gaming.

If the developers don't think that the player base can handle that sort of gaming, then making the SP/OC without those things through optional scripting for it is the way to go, IMNSHO. Of course, there will be players out there who cannot figure it out, though I am willing to bet that this crowd is actually a greater minority than marketers would have the developers believe. Someone that can figure this stuff out isn't going to call the Hotllne and complain that they can't figure out why they cannot use the longsword and hit anything as a mage.

As another poster above pointed out; RTFM or RTFI: Read the Fricking Manual/Instructions. Those that do are likely not to call, those that don't, don't want to, or (unhappily) are really too stupid to figure out that there are rules in the game are probably going to call. I am still willing to bet that this number is not the majority. I am also of the opinion that the developers who "dumb down" games are not hip to the big sellers' claim to fame: Civilization (not a simple dumb head game), Any true (A)D&D game: Pool of Radiance, Ultima, Heroes of Might and Magic and many others were not simple-- there were plenty of rules. The difference in these games is that the interface is relatviely easy to use and still the game is difficult to master.

RPGs are not typically the province of simple gaming. It is a rich and varied gaming experience that can be tailored to the tastes of many different styles of play: But only if the developers give us that option instead of making all of us play it in the "dumbed down" version.

This mentality is, in the long run, destructive of the ends of RPGs in general and is clearly an insult to the many, many intelligent, creative and complex gaming worlds, module makers and gamers out there who have shown, time and again, that not only will they not just complain about these things, they can fix them if the developers won't.

I am just hoping that the developers will hear this and give the smart version of the game options to dumb it down, instead of forcing the gaming community to supercharge an economy car.

dunniteowl