New XP System and CR

chamalscuro · Post by **chamalscuro** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:04 am

downsystem wrote:Well their is always the option of looking for all the fed ex quest avlis has and getting experiance that way in your limited time. Their is quit a lot of them out thier.

You just hung a huge bullseye on yourself. They machinegun people for saying such things here.

Deider · Post by **Deider** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:08 am

Oh ye of little faith. We put in changes, and added modifications THREE DAYS LATER. In Avlis, with its usual glacial rate of change, that's moving at the speed of light. Dirk and Arandil, both of you have been here long enough to know that. Those changes were based directly on playerbase feedback. We are working right now on a few more tweaks, but discussions and testing take time. If that sort of service isn't good enough for you...

Dirk, Arandil: wherever you go, I hope you have fun. I wish you'd have had a bit more faith in us, but such is life. Things take a slight turn for the worse and suddenly the world ends for some folks. If you don't have the faith in us to do what we do with an eye for The Vision and the enjoyment of all (as best as we can do it), then yes, it is time for you to move on. Arandil, frankly, you've been on this side of the curtain, I guess I expected a bit more leeway from you. Ah well, I've been wrong before, and will be wrong again. Game on you two, wherever that game may be.

Zahn · Post by **Zahn** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:43 am

Deider wrote:We put in changes, and added modifications THREE DAYS LATER.

And many thanks for that!

With all these thread about the new system, I'm not entirely clear, so going to ask here:

New XP system running on all servers, correct?

New XP system plus the "three days later" tweaks running on Wilderness only?

Is PM or email and to who better to give feedback about the new system?

fyrmin · Post by **fyrmin** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:46 am

ah come on guys, dont leave! maybe take a week off if you have to but i bet when you get back everything will be fine. when people leave avlis fyrmin cries

. is that what you want? to make fyrmin cry?

Chemical-Burn · Post by **Chemical-Burn** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:06 am

Im confused, how did epics get 1d4+1 for camping newb areas? My character has killed many a noisy crop rat at Elf Gate and everytime 1 xp 1xp 1xp. Half of the spider caves (that she can handle) is 1 xp. anything weak to challenging is 1 xp. She only got more then 1 xp on things that required lots of HiPS and bandage healing in the middle of fights.

Arandil wrote: - choose any dungeon on the wilderness server ( except the LRC? Dunno, not tried it recently ), and unless I have the time to assemble a large group with some lower level players, get 100xp odd for an hour or two

I dont know how you get even 100. Last parties my characters have been in were aginst monsters she needed a nat 20 to hit and net 13 xp. 8 xp one time. etc etc.

Arandil wrote:- do some crafting

Seems the only way to gain xp to reflect my characters training. Hard to justify xp gained from crafting as a gain in experience from stealthy activities, but said stealthy activities net 0 xp. So what used to be sneak attacks now turn to completely ignoring everything with stealth as she learns nothing from the encounter (xp) or gets her ass handed and prays that HiPS will not fail

Arandil wrote:- - picnic at elf gate

never got xp that way. Spend far too much time there as its the home city of my character.

Arandil wrote:- - make a guild meeting every 2 months if i'm lucky

Never got xp that way. Has a guild and makes meetings when she can (never seems to be a dm during meeting time)

So for my character Avlis has become a crafting server in a sense. Most partys are with her partner that is higher in levels and its them spending time together (raising party level which is even worse)

What happened to the good old DM pwnage of asshats that camp newb areas forcing the newbs out?

So thats just my thoughts about it, people rave getting more xp and i guess my character is on the other side *shrugs*

Arandil · Post by **Arandil** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:44 am

I'm not leaving yet Deider, as I said, just posting my experience so far.
I do have faith in the team vision, I'm just not sure it caters for all playstyles ( which in my opinion, is next to impossible), and if thats the case, I'll move on and certainly have no hard feelings.
I'll keep giving this system a try. As for the person who got all that xp in one day, I have no idea where you went or how you did it. My main experience so far was the golem caves, with my lvl34, 2 people around lvl 20 and one lvl10. We got 1xp for things from the 3rd lvl down, and 2xp each for the adamantine golems at the bottom, which killed one of the lvl20s.

As for the "service" not being good enough, you know I don't think that way. I understand how much work goes into this and I DO appreciate what you and the other guys do. Don't burn out and don't take this personally, its not meant as such.

Glofindel · Post by **Glofindel** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:28 am

FYI;
The system on wilderness right now seems buggy.
I killed a rat and a serverwide message went out complaining about it with an "*.exp_3* type of tag.
Also seems to fluctuate from 1-2 for a time, to 4-10 or so for the next 5 minutes on the SAME creatures, then back again.....something is amiss.

I seriously could care less, as it has not affected my fun here except for the better having the new exp system.....but....I am the least important of the player base, that's for sure!

Deider · Post by **Deider** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:02 am

Arandil wrote:I'll keep giving this system a try. As for the person who got all that xp in one day, I have no idea where you went or how you did it.

Not person, persons. Many persons. People, if you will

Don't burn out and don't take this personally, its not meant as such.

I know, though I can't help but get my panties in a bunch when people who don't know WTF they are talking about say I 'buggered the xp system even further.'

You'll not be rid of me that easy, I'm well aware of Rule #0: no matter what you do, someone's gonna complain.

I killed a rat and a serverwide message went out complaining about it with an "*.exp_3* type of tag.
Also seems to fluctuate from 1-2 for a time, to 4-10 or so for the next 5 minutes on the SAME creatures, then back again.....something is amiss.

The error message will disappear with the next revision. The fluctuating XP is the EL adjustment code in action. That's not a bug

Arandil · Post by **Arandil** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:10 am

I'm not saying, by any stretch, that you've buggered anything Deider! I think the new xp system works great for most folks, I'm just not sure yet if it works for me or people like me, with random, limited playtime. I'll keep trying it for a few more weeks and then decide. I know you've probably thought of this already, but if only a couple of places give decent xp for epics, aren't they gonna become epic camping grounds?

Deider · Post by **Deider** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:17 am

Arandil wrote:I'm not saying, by any stretch, that you've buggered anything Deider!

Wasn't referring to you.

I know you've probably thought of this already, but if only a couple of places give decent xp for epics, aren't they gonna become epic camping grounds?

You mean epics will go to places that actually challenge them instead of farming lowbie areas? Yeah, the thought crossed my mind.

And yes, I've heard the arguments that some CR15 creatures challenge somebody's lvl33548 SD/psion/cheesemakers. Hopefully the EL adjustment will help that a bit, as will some other stuff we're discussing.

Dirk Cutlass · Post by **Dirk Cutlass** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:50 am

Deider wrote:
Arandil wrote:I'm not saying, by any stretch, that you've buggered anything Deider!
Wasn't referring to you.

No. He was referring to me. And I said "screwed" not "buggered". And I didn't direct it personally at Deider it was to Team in General. And it wasn't even meant to be an insult or anything, just a bad choice of words. And I apologised for it anyway. However, Deider's attacks at me have been quite personal, and are one of the reasons why I've already quit Avlis. I was actually going to just quit playing and join The Team instead, but I just tore up my application in dismay.

Heronimous Fox · Post by **Heronimous Fox** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:58 am

xp feedback

level 23

in the last week have managed to accumulate 1500 xps through a variety of play.....none of it involving cookies. Never on too long cos RL feckin busy at the minute and too tired at night. Most of it soloing.

At this level I am now getting more XP's for creatures within the CR range of my character.

Example - elder elementals. Before I was getting 1-5, now Im getting between 11 and 31. I also think I received 50 for one I killed but can't b sure as was surrounded by 12 at the time and things were a little hectic.

My impression is if the creature is more of a challenge I am getting more xps.
I am getting no xps for things that are effortless which is what I expect as
I get no xps for trivial crafting so why for trivial npcs.

I think this is a dramatic improvement.

Dirk...you can only change things from within...join the team as you'd be a great asset IMHO. Leaving is the wrong decision, don't take this stuff personally ITS A DISCUSSION ABOUT A GAME after all.

Demandred · Post by **Demandred** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:12 am

Heronimous Fox wrote: Dirk...you can only change things from within...join the team as you'd be a great asset IMHO. Leaving is the wrong decision, don't take this stuff personally ITS A DISCUSSION ABOUT A GAME after all.

100% agree!

Dirk, the team could use another engineer!

Cool down and please reconsider your decission.

Demandredd

Arandil · Post by **Arandil** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:41 am

Fox,
that sounds good, but you're only lvl23. Finding challenging critters once you hit the high twenties, low thirties, is a lot tougher. Elder elementals just don't cut it.

Khaelindra · Post by **Khaelindra** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:50 am

A nice thing i noticed about fighting some tough critters: they gave only half xp after you killed the second and following. In a case:

lvl 24, 16 and...something low teenish...

BB Chieftains gave respectively: 138, 64, 63, !6! (yes, six), 62, 64....etc...

That was a run of about 7 or 8 spawns. Then the lowest level left and the lvls 24 & 16 received: 31, 34, 32, etc....

In general, it looks like dragging lowbies along invisible as party-level-reducers will give huge boosts to xp. Not sure that was the intention, but from what i experienced the effect could run into the thousands of extra xp if "used" for a prolonged period.

Will keep giving feedback.

Michael

Nob · Post by **Nob** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:53 am

Khaelindra wrote:A nice thing i noticed about fighting some tough critters: they gave only half xp after you killed the second and following. In a case:

lvl 24, 16 and...something low teenish...

BB Chieftains gave respectively: 138, 64, 63, !6! (yes, six), 62, 64....etc...

That was a run of about 7 or 8 spawns. Then the lowest level left and the lvls 24 & 16 received: 31, 34, 32, etc....

In general, it looks like dragging lowbies along invisible as party-level-reducers will give huge boosts to xp. Not sure that was the intention, but from what i experienced the effect could run into the thousands of extra xp if "used" for a prolonged period.

Will keep giving feedback.

Michael

That 6 actually sounds like the Encounter Level boosted the CR of that one critter so high, that your party level was too LOW to actually get xp for it...

Alphonse · Post by **Alphonse** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:56 am

are we not starting to get spoilerish / exploit revealing now?

I believe Deider and PJ also requested no more public XP quanitity and location feedback

Heronimous Fox · Post by **Heronimous Fox** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:18 pm

Eeeek...meant two weeks....1500 xps in two weeks not one......

Arandil...think those Golems you mention need a CR adjust .....they did pwn Fox quickly and made a few holes in QS's silky tights

...for 1xp....ill send gnomagnicnome a pm.

Arandil · Post by **Arandil** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:25 pm

You're a damned powergamer Fox! *slaps Fox several times round face with silky glove*

Yeah, a CR adjustment on the golems would be good.

Khaelindra · Post by **Khaelindra** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:33 pm

Alphonse wrote: I believe Deider and PJ also requested no more public XP quanitity and location feedback

Must have missed that. D/PJ, if my post contains too much spoiler info, fele free to adjust as needed.

Fire Monkey · Post by **Fire Monkey** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:44 pm

I agree with Arandil about the lack of xp or the ability to find things within the right CR range. I do need to do more extensive testing to double check but speaking from a lvl 28 perspective I am struggling to find things that are challenging to fight and I have yet to kill something that gives higher than 10xp (and most things have been 0 or in the 1-6 range). I will report back after I have looked around a little more. Or not if thats not the kind of feedback you are currently looking for.

Deider wrote:
I know you've probably thought of this already, but if only a couple of places give decent xp for epics, aren't they gonna become epic camping grounds?
You mean epics will go to places that actually challenge them instead of farming lowbie areas? Yeah, the thought crossed my mind.

I like the idea of epic having areas that challenge them and not going to lowbie areas. What I don't like is that epics need to goto dungeon XXX to find those areas. Given the emphasis on xp for things that are challenging to fight I think it would be better to add more lvl dependent spawns (that go upto epic levels) in general outside areas. This would mean that those "Random encounters" one finds travelling from A to B would provide a challenge (and xp) to epics as well as the lower levels. It would also give great potentials for patrols for various guilds.

Tigg · Post by **Tigg** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:00 pm

Fire Monkey wrote:This would mean that those "Random encounters" one finds travelling from A to B would provide a challenge (and xp) to epics as well as the lower levels. It would also give great potentials for patrols for various guilds.

That would be sweet

Heronimous Fox · Post by **Heronimous Fox** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:11 pm

Sounds like a job for Duke Cutennass......

Alexyzar · Post by **Alexyzar** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:14 pm

The XP system seems to work very well (too well?) for mid teen levels.
My character of 15th lvl was with a couple of lvl 20's another mid teen and a low under 10 lvl. We did seem to wrack up the XP faster than I have ever seen. Before I knew it I had leveled and must have knocked up close to a 1000 xp, this was in a region where I have been many times and never came close to that.

Plus the Loot drops are so much more exciting, you really never know what goodies you get dropped these days.

So in respects of partying it does encourage it and the loots make adventuring that much more fun. Will be interesting to see how this Evolves and lets face it it will evolve to something the majority of us will work with.

However I can see a time when the majority of Characters will be hitting the mid-high 20's and forming a bottle neck. If all the lowbies are gaining more XP in parties they will get to the Mid 20's faster then hit the 'slow lane' of gaining levels. There will be an accumalation of these mid-high 20's characters. That could alter the demographics of the Avlis. But as I said things are still in their infancy with the new XP system.

downsystem · Post by **downsystem** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:20 pm

I think its all in all the exp system is good idea. I just think ya need more areas that that have monster spawns that get more challenging as you get tougher, as some earlier pointed out. Thats one thing that really shocks ya when your running through a cave that once had monsters ya could take on pretty easily then you get your butt kicked by ones that are way more difficult to take on.

Hmm maybe the whole idea with this new system was to weed out the epics on avlis so that only the absolute determined ones will make it.