Give you your highest DC's

Xeo · Post by **Xeo** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:22 pm

Isamu casted a DC 40 Wail Of The Banshee......

Hope Hala have fun with him.

WrathOG777 · Post by **WrathOG777** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:30 pm

KaiRal Windspar wrote:It should be noted that this is a strictly hypothetical thread, and character builds of this nature are cheesy as all get out.

Pleaes don't ever use this thread as a justification to do something in game. Ever.

Please?

The dev crit builds are out there, and they are doing it. This is not hypothetical at all.

KaiRal Windspar · Post by **KaiRal Windspar** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:40 pm

Then screw it. Game on.

WrathOG777 · Post by **WrathOG777** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:08 pm

Practicaly every str based melee will take dev crit, there is no reason not to. and if they already have that much strenght they are probably going to keep raiseing it.

Same goes for mages. they all take 16-18 stating casting stat, at least one spell focus, and max out that casting stat all the way to 40th. Again no reason not to.

now a nymph sorc blackguard paladin is over the top, but the majority of lvl 30+ melees are gona be swinging around a 40+ DC dev crit.

slave_of_emotions · Post by **slave_of_emotions** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:27 pm

WrathOG777 wrote:Practicaly every str based melee will take dev crit, there is no reason not to. and if they already have that much strenght they are probably going to keep raiseing it.

Same goes for mages. they all take 16-18 stating casting stat, at least one spell focus, and max out that casting stat all the way to 40th. Again no reason not to.

now a nymph sorc blackguard paladin is over the top, but the majority of lvl 30+ melees are gona be swinging around a 40+ DC dev crit.

There is big difference between mages and fighters/psions, both get they levels to DC, while mages are stuck with DC bonus based on spell level while saving throws on epic level keep to increase evry 2nd level.
Psions will gain evry second level +1 to DC so they are always the winners. And DEV Crit increases with fighter levels as well.
MAges have to raise they int to raise they spell DCs even if they would like to increase some other stat, otherwise they spells will become useless.

Fifty · Post by **Fifty** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:33 pm

Why are we helping Zach kill us all?

WrathOG777 · Post by **WrathOG777** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:34 pm

give in to the Zach! If you are on his good side maybe you don't get keeled you know?

pedsdmd · Post by **pedsdmd** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:56 am

Fifty wrote:Why are we helping Zach kill us all?

Zach is asking questions about DC's, dev. crit. High level scrolls like he has a plan.

Tharliss · Post by **Tharliss** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:24 am

pedsdmd wrote:
Fifty wrote:Why are we helping Zach kill us all?
Zach is asking questions about DC's, dev. crit. High level scrolls like he has a plan.

*Grins wickedly and then Smites pedsdmd before anyone realizes the connection*

Post by **tindertwiggy** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:03 am

I can talk a little about a human evoker. Some of my favorite avlis moments have been while adventuring for the first time with a monk or rogue who is just high enough level to feel pretty cocky about their evasion feat. After a fireball or two they usually say "Oh you can put the next fireball on me when I'm surrounded. I'll dodge it."

If I am feeling frisky the fireball that I put "on them" is an empowered delayed blast. The combat readout screen usually says something like this:

XXXXXX Reflex Save: Roll 15 + Modifier 18 = 33 vs. DC 37
Sammy Damages XXXXXXX 120 [Fire]

I can only count the number of times I've done this on one hand, but in the majority of them the player hit the floor like a burnt sack of bricks right along with whatever they were fighting. I truly truly truly treasure those moments. Then epic levels come. The saves rise +1 per 2 levels and +2 or +4 with a single feat. The DC's increase glacially at +1 per 8 levels and another +1 per two feats. hit points continue to increase, yet damage is capped on 99% of spells. "Epic" spellcasting... don't even get me started.

Now that I've sufficiently side tracked this. Zach an average epic focused caster will hit dc's in the low 40's for their focused school. A human necro with epic focus who has dumped everything into their casting stat will have have a +20 modifier.

Spell DC = 10 + Modifier (20) + Spell level + Focus (6) = 36 + spell level. DCs' would be 37-45. This is for a very stat pumped lvl 40 caster.

pedsdmd · Post by **pedsdmd** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:55 am

pedsdmd wrote:
Fifty wrote:
Why are we helping Zach kill us all?

Zach is asking questions about DC's, dev. crit. High level scrolls like he has a plan.

*Grins wickedly and then Smites pedsdmd before anyone realizes the connection*

Hey I'm the Smiter! You stick to dual weilding 8attack criticals will ya!

unless...*scratches head*..he figured out a way to artifice paladin feats too..

Baby Jinx · Post by **Baby Jinx** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:20 am

WrathOG777 wrote:
KaiRal Windspar wrote:It should be noted that this is a strictly hypothetical thread, and character builds of this nature are cheesy as all get out.

Pleaes don't ever use this thread as a justification to do something in game. Ever.

Please?
The dev crit builds are out there, and they are doing it. This is not hypothetical at all.

I'm no stat guru, but I think all builds would have their weaknesses. The dudes who have mega-high strength and con bonuses will probably suck in another save area...will saves maybe?

I'd like to see the dev crit build cry for his momma after a psion mindfucks them with hallucinate destroying their 400+ HP in one go

loki70 · Post by **loki70** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:35 am

Baby Jinx wrote:
WrathOG777 wrote:
KaiRal Windspar wrote:It should be noted that this is a strictly hypothetical thread, and character builds of this nature are cheesy as all get out.

Pleaes don't ever use this thread as a justification to do something in game. Ever.

Please?
The dev crit builds are out there, and they are doing it. This is not hypothetical at all.
I'm no stat guru, but I think all builds would have their weaknesses. The dudes who have mega-high strength and con bonuses will probably suck in another save area...will saves maybe?

I'd like to see the dev crit build cry for his momma after a psion mindfucks them with hallucinate destroying their 400+ HP in one go

Lots of them run around with mind immunity from their friendly mage/cleric. Usually their dex and will saves do suck, and stunning fist (monk) will get them to hold still. Maybe we should just toss dev crit onto the pile of dead horses and set the whole thing ablaze.

mortzestus · Post by **mortzestus** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:45 am

loki70 wrote:Lots of them run around with mind immunity from their friendly mage/cleric. Usually their dex and will saves do suck, and stunning fist (monk) will get them to hold still. Maybe we should just toss dev crit onto the pile of dead horses and set the whole thing ablaze.

Too bad that the save vs. Stunning Fist is fortitude then.

loki70 · Post by **loki70** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:08 am

mortzestus wrote:
loki70 wrote:Lots of them run around with mind immunity from their friendly mage/cleric. Usually their dex and will saves do suck, and stunning fist (monk) will get them to hold still. Maybe we should just toss dev crit onto the pile of dead horses and set the whole thing ablaze.
Too bad that the save vs. Stunning Fist is fortitude then.

You sure about that one? Always thought it was will. *shrugs* Works often enough, either way.

Alphonse · Post by **Alphonse** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:12 am

well if Dev Crit needs a certain STR make sure you bring along a rogue with Crippling strike and lots of attacks to neutralise it

mortzestus · Post by **mortzestus** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:26 am

loki70 wrote:
mortzestus wrote:
loki70 wrote:Lots of them run around with mind immunity from their friendly mage/cleric. Usually their dex and will saves do suck, and stunning fist (monk) will get them to hold still. Maybe we should just toss dev crit onto the pile of dead horses and set the whole thing ablaze.
Too bad that the save vs. Stunning Fist is fortitude then.
You sure about that one? Always thought it was will. *shrugs* Works often enough, either way.

Completely sure, heh.

Stunning Fist
Type of Feat: General
Prerequisite: DEX 13, WIS 13, BAB +8, Improved Unarmed Strike
Required for: Extra Stunning Attacks
Specifics: The character can attempt a disabling strike with a -4 attack penalty and a -4 damage penalty. If successful, the target must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 the attacker’s level + the attacker’s Wisdom modifier) or be held for three rounds. This attack may be used 1x/day for every four levels of the character.
Use: Combat. Monks suffer no attack or damage penalties when using this feat and may use it 1x/day per level. Constructs and undead are immune to this attack, as are any creatures that are immune to critical hits.

loki70 · Post by **loki70** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:37 am

Wow, didn't think that Dwarf Mercenaries had that low a save for fort. Good to know, though. *goes off to beat the crap out of mages*

KaiRal Windspar · Post by **KaiRal Windspar** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:56 am

Alphonse wrote:well if Dev Crit needs a certain STR make sure you bring along a rogue with Crippling strike and lots of attacks to neutralise it

I believe it only requires a certain str to aquire the feat, buit once aquired, it's always on. Same with Power Attack, requires 13+ Str, and I have used it in fights with shadow fiends, when drained all the way to 6 Strength.

mortzestus · Post by **mortzestus** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:09 am

Lowering the STR of the attacker will still lower the DC, though. That's why Alphonse mentions "lots of attacks", to lower the Devastating Critical DC as soon as possible.

Alphonse · Post by **Alphonse** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:12 am

mortzestus wrote:Lowering the STR of the attacker will still lower the DC, though. That's why Alphonse mentions "lots of attacks", to lower the Devastating Critical DC as soon as possible.

yup. if you get initiative from hiding with a dual wield that gives you 4 'free' sneak attacks to attempt to lower the DC when they do hit you back. Alternatively spend the whole fight sneak attacking with a bow. watch them cry as the DC on the crit gets lower every hit

Rain&Clouds · Post by **Rain&Clouds** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:18 am

Crippling strike doesn't work with bows though... but you can always use Called Shot on them

Alphonse · Post by **Alphonse** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:23 am

Rain&Clouds wrote:Crippling strike doesn't work with bows though... but you can always use Called Shot on them

does it not? I thought it was automatic on any sneak attack

Rain&Clouds · Post by **Rain&Clouds** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:26 am

Not with ranged attacks though

Significant Owl · Post by **Significant Owl** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:26 am

Not on bows, no.