Please put back the old crafting menus ;)

Dirk Cutlass · Post by **Dirk Cutlass** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:00 pm

OK... I'm still a bit pissed off with this research mode thing.

Not only do I not get XP of any kind for making iron ingots in bulk mode (reported bug), but now I just tried to make a couple of darts in research mode and it seemed to use up about 50 iron ingots in doing so. Yesterday it worked normal

What the hell is going on? Maybe there was some other junk left on the anvil and that ruined it?

Please please please can someone (Team member ideally) state clearly and definitively how this silly research / bulk thing is supposed to work. And none of that "find out in-game" crap please, it is a game mechanic - please explain the game mechanics

Oh.. Thanks

Gorgon · Post by **Gorgon** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:25 pm

Since this is GD...

Maybe there was some other junk left on the anvil and that ruined it?

If you didn't make a mistake, nothing should have been destroyed. Besides the possibility of a bug, a few things could have caused it that I know of.

-You ran out of one material at the end of a batch. When you tried to make another, it saw only some of the things and assumed you got it wrong. Then it destroyed materials and possibly things you had already made.
-you clicked the wrong item in the menu (done it myself few times)
-the table was overloaded and it didn't read in all the materials (it doesn't sound like it in this case if you only had 50 things). Thinking you were missing something, it destroyed a bunch.

I'd suggest bulk mode (again). AFAIK you don't lose materials with misclicks, wrong things or whatever. Only what you use up when you ( try to ) make something.

Explaining how to research really would take the whole point out of teaching people how to do it in game. It isn't hard to figure out with a little...research.

Dirk Cutlass · Post by **Dirk Cutlass** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:44 am

I had 50+ of the "stuff" to make darts, and was in research mode (not because I was particularly researching, just because I didn't want to make 50 of them). I hit the "make 1" button and it failed to make any (just random chance because I'm not very good at it yet). I hit the "make 5" button and it failed to make any after 2 attempts. yes, only 2 attempts. There should have been enough "stuff" to make dozens of darts potentially. When I looked, the anvil was empty, nothing in it. Is this normal?

It seems odd that I can't make just 1 of something without being in research mode. Is there a point to "research mode", at the moment I am just finding a frustrating extra complication. The old system was perfectly alright, why do people like changing things so much?

Dralix · Post by **Dralix** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:10 pm

Stupid question perhaps but ... are you sure you had enough to make 50 of them? Is it possible the recipe has changed since the last time you tried this (I'm assuming with another character)?

Post by **RCon** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:27 pm

Trust me on this, there are some nice effects of research mode that you don't get in bulk mode. At least two that I can think of.

Dirk Cutlass · Post by **Dirk Cutlass** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:51 pm

Ok.. I'll live with it for a while. But what if I really do only want to make 1 of something. I craft for personal consumption usually, I'm not doing wholesale work. I might only want to make 1 burning dagger for instance.

I guess I could use bulk mode and only put enough materials in for 1....

Post by **RCon** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:56 pm

Dirk Cutlass wrote:Ok.. I'll live with it for a while. But what if I really do only want to make 1 of something. I craft for personal consumption usually, I'm not doing wholesale work. I might only want to make 1 burning dagger for instance.

I guess I could use bulk mode and only put enough materials in for 1....

Yes, that would work. Personally, I haven't seen problems making small batches in research mode. If you have the right materials, research mode should work fine. I use it all the time myself. If that is not working properly, it is a bug.

Please note - I cannot speak to issues of leaving materials in bags, and placing the bags on the crafting apparatus. I don't do this, as I know there was a bug regarding this at one time. Not sure if it's been fixed or not.

Aerill · Post by **Aerill** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:49 pm

Dirk Cutlass wrote:OK... I'm still a bit pissed off with this research mode thing.

Not only do I not get XP of any kind for making iron ingots in bulk mode (reported bug), but now I just tried to make a couple of darts in research mode and it seemed to use up about 50 iron ingots in doing so. Yesterday it worked normal What the hell is going on? Maybe there was some other junk left on the anvil and that ruined it?

Please please please can someone (Team member ideally) state clearly and definitively how this silly research / bulk thing is supposed to work. And none of that "find out in-game" crap please, it is a game mechanic - please explain the game mechanics

Oh.. Thanks

Heh, I wasted 100 silver ingots this way once.. was making rings out of them and turned out I was short one other ingredient. So when I chose to make the ring for the last time I failed and as a result I was left with an almost empty table and also lost the rings I made before.. oops..

And we jewelers do not even have bulk mode.

Dralix · Post by **Dralix** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:51 pm

Aerill wrote:And we jewelers do not even have bulk mode.

We do last time I checked ...

Dirk Cutlass · Post by **Dirk Cutlass** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:03 pm

RCon wrote:
Dirk Cutlass wrote:Ok.. I'll live with it for a while. But what if I really do only want to make 1 of something. I craft for personal consumption usually, I'm not doing wholesale work. I might only want to make 1 burning dagger for instance.

I guess I could use bulk mode and only put enough materials in for 1....
Yes, that would work. Personally, I haven't seen problems making small batches in research mode. If you have the right materials, research mode should work fine. I use it all the time myself. If that is not working properly, it is a bug.

Please note - I cannot speak to issues of leaving materials in bags, and placing the bags on the crafting apparatus. I don't do this, as I know there was a bug regarding this at one time. Not sure if it's been fixed or not.

I never ever put bags into crafting placeables anyway. I think the problem I had before was perhaps I had some junk left on the anvil from a previous user. I'll be more careful next time.

Post by **RCon** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:26 pm

Definitely could have been the issue, Dirk. One thing for everyone to remember: the crafting tables only "see" the first N (not sure how many N is) items you have on the table. The idea being to prevent people from dumping 1000 different things on the table and trying every recipe. I learned this lesson the hard way once. Tried to make 50 of an item that has about 7 ingredients. When I dumped them all on the table, it saw that I had 50 of ingredient #1, 50 of ingredient #2, 50 of ingredients #3 and #4, but didn't see the others at all, so told me I didn't have the right materials.

*shakes fist at twice loading and unloading 350 ingredients manually before remembering*

Tigg · Post by **Tigg** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:02 pm

That's good to know, RCon, thanks! It explains some problems I had before...

Right now from all I have read I am too scared to ever try research mode, heheh. I just hate losing stuff! I am not doing as well exp-wise and especially not on the adventuring exp, but oh well no big deal, I assume that it was looked at from the team side and they saw an adjustment needed to be made. And I do think it's true, that there are times that making a part of the game 'harder' can make the overall game experience 'better'.

I'll say thanks very much for whenever the team (and thanks to PJ especially in this instance) has put effort into improving Avlis!

Gorgon · Post by **Gorgon** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:17 pm

RCon wrote:One thing for everyone to remember: the crafting tables only "see" the first N (not sure how many N is)

*shakes fist at twice loading and unloading 350 ingredients manually before remembering*

I ~think~ it was 250 things, but it was a while ago that I asked. PJ should be able to confirm it. Also, I think that items in stacks count as individual things, so a stack of 10 is 10 (sorry for being redundant).

I've hit the overload point where it doesn't "see" an item with only a few pages of things in a crafting placeable, but they were mostly stacks of 10.

An "are you sure you want to unload" dialogue might be nice for those misclicks too. Those can get messy if you have a full table.

Aerill, there is bulk mode now. Right before you pick something you can switch modes.

PlasmaJohn · Post by **PlasmaJohn** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:57 pm

Gorgon wrote:I ~think~ it was 250 things, but it was a while ago that I asked. PJ should be able to confirm it. Also, I think that items in stacks count as individual things, so a stack of 10 is 10 (sorry for being redundant).

It deals in 'engine objects' 1 stack = 1 object, so if you have 10 bottles in a stack and 1 dandelion on the table it's 2 objects unless you've separated the stack into individual bottles then it'll be 11 objects.

There used to be a message returned when research mode 'ate' anything. I'll restore that. Also, it shouldn't eat a whole table's worth of reagents... That's potentially a harder problem to solve.

If you're going to be doing research, make sure your table is clean first. Easiest way is to open the placeble and close it. If you get a menu, there's something on there. If there's something there, get rid of it first and then exit the menu completely.

PlasmaJohn · Post by **PlasmaJohn** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:16 pm

One other thing, when complaining about craft placebles, always, always, always say which server you're experiencing problems on.

Wilderness will get the changes first since that's basically where the code is being developed. If something goofy happens there, then it's assuredly a bug (if it's not lag related of course).

Dirk Cutlass · Post by **Dirk Cutlass** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:49 pm

PlasmaJohn wrote:One other thing, when complaining about craft placebles, always, always, always say which server you're experiencing problems on.

Wilderness will get the changes first since that's basically where the code is being developed. If something goofy happens there, then it's assuredly a bug (if it's not lag related of course).

That's good to know. I am getting XP for bulk producing iron ingots on Wilderness now. I was not getting any XP on Mikona.. I guess the problem is fixed in Wilderness

Anyamaur · Post by **Anyamaur** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:16 am

Evil.

EEVIILL