xp penalties

[Talwin Hawkins]

I just never understood how elves are favoured wizard when they have a +2 to dex? WTF is all that about. +2 to Int, fine wizard.

[gwydion2]

Wizardry is about studying magic. If you have a vast lifespan to read all the books and research it, then it should help.

Humans don't get an int bonus either.

[Talwin Hawkins]

no but humans can do anything?

[gwydion2]

having your highest class automatically as a favoured class is a big bonus for humans. Meant to represent their adaptability I presume.

[Kareth]

Wizardry is about studying magic. If you have a vast lifespan to read all the books and research it, then it should help.

I don't really buy that, why not have a favoured class of fighter as the vast lifespan gives them longer to practice with a sword?

Yes, it would help but it would also apply to the other learned classes.

And if it is because of a natural elven conncection with magic then why not sorcerer?

[Talwin Hawkins]

Whoa - is this somekind of alternate dimension? I actually agree with Kareth! *runs away screaming*

[Kareth]

Merlin, from the early version of the tale was only half human. You could call him a half elf or maybe a teifling, depending on your interpretation.

There are many different versions of the legend, some of them have Merlin as a human not born but created by the druidic gods/goddess (of which the lady of the lake was one).

[gwydion2]

Sword is learned by doing, not by reading. An elf cannot help but be better educated on average than a shorter lived race by the time they reach maturity.

But if you think it takes an int bonus to have favoured class wizard then no major race should have it. It would be a little ridiculous for Avlis orks to have it considering the background.

It's easy to come up with a justification to support them being anything you like. Just as easy to find reasons against it. Avlis Elves are favoured class wizards. Why not accept it?

[gwydion2]

Merlin as a human not born but created by the druidic gods/goddess (of which the lady of the lake was one).

As a created being, that hardly qualifies him as human.

[loki70]

Dwarf-fighter-+2 con (makes sense)

Gnome-illusionist (I think, or I could be no the wrong version) - +2 con (?)

Halfling-rogue- +2 dex (makes sense)

Half-orc - Barbarian - +2 Str (makes sense)

Elf - Wizard - +2 dex (no sense)

Half-elf - Humanesque

Human - Duh

So, the only one that makes no sense at all is the elf, and it speaks more to an RP situation (eldritch race and all that). If anyone ever played the LotR RPG, you would understand a bit more just how much DnD nerfs the elves overall. I remember back in the day (and this is way back in the day) when the CLASS elf was automatically a fighter/wizard

[Talwin Hawkins]

Sword is learned by doing, not by reading. An elf cannot help but be better educated on average than a shorter lived race by the time they reach maturity.

But if you think it takes an int bonus to have favoured class wizard then no major race should have it. It would be a little ridiculous for Avlis orks to have it considering the background.

It's easy to come up with a justification to support them being anything you like. Just as easy to find reasons against it. Avlis Elves are favoured class wizards. Why not accept it?

WTF? i think youll find both the people "disagreeing" here play elves that arnt wizards. So surely we ARE accepting it. Ive had a 20% XP penalty for about 12 levels. We were discussing why.

[Kareth]

It's easy to come up with a justification to support them being anything you like. Just as easy to find reasons against it. Avlis Elves are favoured class wizards. Why not accept it?

I accept it, I just don't understand the reason behind favoured classes

[loki70]

It's easy to come up with a justification to support them being anything you like. Just as easy to find reasons against it. Avlis Elves are favoured class wizards. Why not accept it?

I accept it, I just don't understand the reason behind favoured classes

And it's not Avlis elves, it's DnD elves. Couldn't change it if we wanted to. My elf is a monk. Makes a good combo, and makes for some more interesting RP, overall. If I threw in some magery just cause it is his favored race, it wouldn't make any sense at all, IC or OOC

[gwydion2]

The why, is pretty much because that's the way elves have always been seen by D&D system. Sure there are other backgrounds that make sense. I just don't see any difficulty with elves being wizards.

[gwydion2]

Nobody is forced to play a favoured class. If you don't multiclass, it's no penalty at all. If you do multiclass, it's still no penalty if you keep your classes balanced. There is no penalty for PrC at all.

[loki70]

The why, is pretty much because that's the way elves have always been seen by D&D system. Sure there are other backgrounds that make sense. I just don't see any difficulty with elves being wizards.

It's only a difficulty when you get smacked cause your highest class isn't a wizard. I know one character who is way into epic levels, and gets 1 or 2 xp per kill. And this is the really dangerous stuff. All cause he is dual class (I think it's trip class now). It would make sense (or more sense) if there was no xp penalty (which is impossible, by the way). But it's not a bonus for having a elf mage, and following the natural tendency of the whole race by becoming a mage (which has always made me wonder why the elves never took over. I mean, here is this race of immortal epic-level mages running around playing in the trees and picking flowers?). It's a penalty. Anyway, enough rambling. Let people grumble.

[Talwin Hawkins]

The why, is pretty much because that's the way elves have always been seen by D&D system. Sure there are other backgrounds that make sense. I just don't see any difficulty with elves being wizards.

It's only a difficulty when you get smacked cause your highest class isn't a wizard. I know one character who is way into epic levels, and gets 1 or 2 xp per kill. And this is the really dangerous stuff. All cause he is dual class (I think it's trip class now). It would make sense (or more sense) if there was no xp penalty (which is impossible, by the way). But it's not a bonus for having a elf mage, and following the natural tendency of the whole race by becoming a mage (which has always made me wonder why the elves never took over. I mean, here is this race of immortal epic-level mages running around playing in the trees and picking flowers?). It's a penalty. Anyway, enough rambling. Let people grumble.

shit man you just described me.

[drunkenpig]

I know one character who is way into epic levels, and gets 1 or 2 xp per kill. And this is the really dangerous stuff. All cause he is dual class (I think it's trip class now).

So, if he's dual class and gets 1XP due to the 20% penalty, then for killing the really dangerous stuff as a single class he would have gotten 2 XP MAX (2xp x 80% penalty = 1.6 so if it rounds down then that is the 1XP)

If he's trip class (like my char) and gets 1 xp due to the 40% penalty, then for killing the really dangerous stuff as a single class he would have gotten 3 XP MAX (3xp x 40% penalty = 1.8 so if it rounds down then that is the 1XP)

so really, does it matter that much if all your getting is 1 or 2 XP. No, b/c the real reason is b/c Avlis gives minor XP for killing most stuff.

[loki70]

Yes, it is a low xp world. But with a fairly large group working well together, you can go through a lot, if not all of a dungeon, and do fairly well xp-wise (400-1000). Now, if you are a higher level char with that xp penalty, you are seriously hindered (200-800, with more of a leaning on the low end). Tack on the extra 20% for trip class, and this become (200-600). My character generally gets a good chunk of his xp from crafting and DM cookies/quest rewards. But the rest is kills.

[drunkenpig]

Yes, it is a low xp world. But with a fairly large group working well together, you can go through a lot, if not all of a dungeon, and do fairly well xp-wise (400-1000). Now, if you are a higher level char with that xp penalty, you are seriously hindered (200-800, with more of a leaning on the low end). Tack on the extra 20% for trip class, and this become (200-600). My character generally gets a good chunk of his xp from crafting and DM cookies/quest rewards. But the rest is kills.

Yes, I group all the time for dungeon crawls and get a nice range.

If the single class characters are getting 400 to 1000, I am getting 320 to 800 if I am double class and at triple class I get 240 to 600. At triple class it makes a bigger difference, at double class not so much. But, the 20% penalty that was the trade off I accepted to get a +7 to my str when I created my character, and then the -40% is the trade off for my characters development.

Pretty much all the single class characters I play with, we are advancing at nearly the same rate as I am even with my penalties. I get a lot of XP from crafting and DM cookies.

[drunkenpig]

<< remove double post >>

[loki70]

Yes, it is a low xp world. But with a fairly large group working well together, you can go through a lot, if not all of a dungeon, and do fairly well xp-wise (400-1000). Now, if you are a higher level char with that xp penalty, you are seriously hindered (200-800, with more of a leaning on the low end). Tack on the extra 20% for trip class, and this become (200-600). My character generally gets a good chunk of his xp from crafting and DM cookies/quest rewards. But the rest is kills.

Yes, I group all the time for dungeon crawls and get a nice range.

If the single class characters are getting 400 to 1000, I am getting 320 to 800 if I am double class and at triple class I get 240 to 600. At triple class it makes a bigger difference, at double class not so much. But, the 20% penalty that was the trade off I accepted to get a +7 to my str when I created my character, and then the -40% is the trade off for my characters development.

Pretty much all the single class characters I play with, we are advancing at nearly the same rate as I am even with my penalties. I get a lot of XP from crafting and DM cookies.

So we agree. Now get away from my mushrooms. *storms off to Deglos*

[gwydion2]

But, the 20% penalty that was the trade off I accepted to get a +7 to my str when I created my character, and then the -40% is the trade off for my characters development.

You get a 40% penalty? I didn't think beast levels were supposed to count as far as the multiclassing penalty was concerned.

[drunkenpig]

But, the 20% penalty that was the trade off I accepted to get a +7 to my str when I created my character, and then the -40% is the trade off for my characters development.

You get a 40% penalty? I didn't think beast levels were supposed to count as far as the multiclassing penalty was concerned.

actually, I've never compared it to see if I was getting a 20% or 40% penalty, I just assumed I was getting the 40% b/c of the beast class, but I could be wrong.

[rubyessence]

ECL races are not supposed to effect the xp penalty at all,..just multiclassing outside fav class at an uneven rate,..40% penalty? good heavens,..no....