Why are Holy Warriors crap?

Krator · Post by **Krator** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 7:53 am

Drysh wrote: I'm not in any project right now, and I'm back and ready to work.

*picks up Drysh and drags him to the Kurathene code*

Kieron · Post by **Kieron** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:30 am

Drysh wrote:The only problem I see with that aproach is that all holy warriors will have to be remade (and changed to paladin). Hard, but we may script that too (NPC to correc the class).

*has a low wisdom like many existing holy warrior chars and will thus never get the new spells anyways*

would be very cool although not so much for the existing holy warriors who are likely not goign to have the right stats for paladin like spells.

mortzestus · Post by **mortzestus** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:01 pm

Drysh wrote:- Remove the need of weapon focus to qualify. This is not just for Avlis, but all the other worlds in CoPaP would benefit from this as they will be able to use the holy warriors too with a not so restrictive requirement. If you want to enforce the use of a weapon, make special weapons for each order. But it will also make it possible to take them without a level in fighter (you could make a priest/holy warrior).

You don't need to be a fighter to take weapon focus.

Aloro · Post by **Aloro** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:31 pm

OK.

I've been working with the Holy Orders on their private forums to rebalance the Holy Warriors, and we're almost done. Avengers, Confounders, and Justicars are done. Champions and Annihilators are in the final stages. Equalizers and Dominators are being worked on now.

I'll post the new class stats once everything's done and all seven PrCs receive final blessings from the Team.

Spellcasting is not part of these classes - it's being implemented in the same way other BW PrCs get spells, i.e. they're granted as special abilities, and do not require Wisdom to cast.

- Aloro

TiVO25 · Post by **TiVO25** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:48 am

Are the requirements going to change?

Aspen_Stormcat · Post by **Aspen_Stormcat** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:35 pm

*bumps*

Just curious if there are any updates, and if "paladin" was included on this, or if what they have currently is all they're going to get...

And yes, I've read all of this, and all the threads on the "detect evil" feat..

*smiles, but holds head, and grabs tylenol to deal with headache from spending several hours reading threads with contradictory info in them...*

Any info would be most appreciated. My thanks.

-A.

Fuzz · Post by **Fuzz** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:42 pm

Actually, the point of the edits was to bring the other Holy Warriors in line with the Paladin, as far as I can tell. Paladins are super badass now with the militant bonuses... Holy Warriors still suck.

I can say from my knowledge of the new Justicar's setup that its prerequisites have not changed. Can't speak for any of the other Holy Warriors, though.

Hortis · Post by **Hortis** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:22 pm

Same for confounders, I think. (grumbles about heavy flail because he can't stop himself). Aloro's done a great job.

Aspen_Stormcat · Post by **Aspen_Stormcat** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:36 pm

Thanks! That helps my understanding about the holy warrior classes on Alvis a great deal.

apandapion · Post by **apandapion** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:45 pm

Aloro wrote: I've been working with the Holy Orders on their private forums to rebalance the Holy Warriors, and we're almost done. Avengers, Confounders, and Justicars are done. Champions and Annihilators are in the final stages. Equalizers and Dominators are being worked on now.

Does anyone know if the new confounders will get charisma bonuses to saving throws?

DanishPastry · Post by **DanishPastry** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:57 pm

apandapion wrote:Does anyone know if the new confounders will get charisma bonuses to saving throws?

AFAIK all Holy Warrior PrCs will get either Dark Blessing or the Goodie Two Shoe variant adding their Charisma bonus to the saving throws.

apandapion · Post by **apandapion** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:13 am

DanishPastry wrote:
apandapion wrote:Does anyone know if the new confounders will get charisma bonuses to saving throws?
AFAIK all Holy Warrior PrCs will get either Dark Blessing or the Goodie Two Shoe variant adding their Charisma bonus to the saving throws.

Do you know if any of the prereqs are changing?

Vroshgrak · Post by **Vroshgrak** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:46 am

AFAIK if the prereqs are changing for a PrC it is to make it easier to take. Such as for a Equalizers needed Weapon Specialization and spellcasting, but now its gonna be weapon focus and spellcasting(?). (plus whatever dinky restrictions, like following Mikon and having xxx ranks in a certain skill).

I think the Avenger will be made more accessible by no longer requiring specialization: longbow.

Basically, lookin in the PrC page on the wiki, and if you have it then, you'll have it in the revision, but some things may not be necessary.

If that makes any sense.

apandapion · Post by **apandapion** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 4:58 pm

Vroshgrak wrote:AFAIK if the prereqs are changing for a PrC it is to make it easier to take. Such as for a Equalizers needed Weapon Specialization and spellcasting, but now its gonna be weapon focus and spellcasting(?). (plus whatever dinky restrictions, like following Mikon and having xxx ranks in a certain skill).

I think the Avenger will be made more accessible by no longer requiring specialization: longbow.

Basically, lookin in the PrC page on the wiki, and if you have it then, you'll have it in the revision, but some things may not be necessary.

If that makes any sense.

So what you are saying is that they are, if anything, only going to get easier?

Vroshgrak · Post by **Vroshgrak** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:04 pm

Vroshgrak · Post by **Vroshgrak** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:08 pm

Fifty · Post by **Fifty** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:23 pm

Vroshgrak wrote:yes!

are you sure?

Marleh · Post by **Marleh** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:12 pm

Yes, especially for Equalizers. Requiring combat casting as a prereq is extremely limiting to the class, and several of us who have Mikonite characters are looking forward to it being changed for the better.

apandapion · Post by **apandapion** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:14 pm

Marleh wrote:Yes, especially for Equalizers. Requiring combat casting as a prereq is extremely limiting to the class, and several of us who have Mikonite characters are looking forward to it being changed for the better.

If anyone is willing to send me a copy of the future Confounder requirements so I can make sure I can meet them, send ahead.

Levis Pie · Post by **Levis Pie** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:46 am

I think the real question is why is 3rd edition crap? I mean seriously, it just doesn't get better than 2nd ed. AD&D for me.

Gumble Tinkertumble · Post by **Gumble Tinkertumble** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:19 am

Assuming this is going to be the same...

CONFOUNDERS:
Level 1: Detect Law, Simple Weapons, Medium Armor
Level 3: Smite Law
Level 4: Turn Construct
Level 5: Contagion
Level 6: Slaad Servant
Level 7: Whirling Flail
Level 9: Whirlwind Attack
Level 10: Wild Shape 1 (Wild Shape improves at at 13, 16, 19, 22, 25)
Level 12: Improved Whirlwind Attack
Level 20: Humanoid Shape
Level 28: Elemental shape (Elemental Shape improves at 31, 33, 36)
Level 39: Infinite Wildshape
Level 40: Infinite Elemental Shape
CLASS SKILLS: Heal, Hide, Listen, Search, Spot, Taunt, Tumble

Does this mean confounders are able to take the Shifter class without being druids, assuming they have spell casting level 3 from another class?

Krator · Post by **Krator** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:49 am

apandapion · Post by **apandapion** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:37 pm

Levis Pie wrote:I think the real question is why is 3rd edition crap? I mean seriously, it just doesn't get better than 2nd ed. AD&D for me.

Ugh. I can do nostalga for the past as well as anyone, but 2nd edition is barely playable.

loki70 · Post by **loki70** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:06 pm

apandapion wrote:
Levis Pie wrote:I think the real question is why is 3rd edition crap? I mean seriously, it just doesn't get better than 2nd ed. AD&D for me.
Ugh. I can do nostalga for the past as well as anyone, but 2nd edition is barely playable.

Yep, 1st edition was much better. Still got the little paperbacks, from when Elf was a class. 2nd edition was easy to memorize, but everything was wanky. 3rd fixed most of it. Doesn't give my Justicar any different abilities, so I don't understand how it came up, but oh well.

Levis Pie · Post by **Levis Pie** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:20 pm

never played 1st edition before, I always heard it sucked tho so thats why I kinda stayed away from it.