Role playing an assassin

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » Mon May 23, 2005 12:13 am

I was wondering what people thought about how an assassin should be role played.

I don't really like playing evil characters. If anything I prefer a neutral or sort of misguided good.

I wish the assassin class didn't have to be evil.

Do you think there is a non cheesy way to play an assassin as a short of duty bound assassin as opposed to a hired killer?

I would imagine on both sides of the T'Nanshi and M'chek war there could quite possibly be soldiers who's job is to sneak behind enemy lines and kill officers or generals.

Assassinations happen all the time in the real world. When our enemies do it it's called an assassination. When we do it it's called a missle strike or pre-emptive attack.

nearly any class can be an assassin. an assassins job is a lot like a soldier. Their job is to protect "someone" through the use of physical force.

Does the assassin class HAVE to be the stereotypical hired contract killer with no morals or scruples? (is that even a word?)
Or is there room to play an assassin who is "just following orders" and better at sneaking around the dark than running all over a battlefield in platemail armor and towershield.

I remember a quite i heard, i think it's from spawn? An angel is meirly an assassin from heaven. Little off topic but interesting idea never the less.

icegard · Post by **icegard** » Mon May 23, 2005 12:19 am

I see an assasin as someone who's specialty is in killing someone, effectively, and unseen. Now the reason, or the way used to kill, I find is completly irrelevant to being an assasin, each one will have different ways, and different reasons while still being an assasin.

So I think yes, you can be one that is not a hired killer, but simply someone who excels in killing, and shows no compassion to his victim.

Zamael668 · Post by **Zamael668** » Mon May 23, 2005 12:53 am

I really don't know why an assassin has to be "Evil" either.

You could allways write it off, as the character views "evil" in a purely subjective manner... You may feel a bit more comfortable with having to be "evil" then.

I guess it's the whole take on Killing People, For Money Is BAD... you know, the party line of the LG crowd.

Personaly, I see assassins as Public/Civil Servants ... They "solve problems" that others cannot resolve in a manner best suited to them.

For whatever reason, Duty Bound, or Contract Killer... They are who they are, being an assassin is just a Job that they excell at... It's what they do.

I've allways liked the concept of the Scrupulous Assassin. Someone who kills, but has his limits... Like the "Cleaner" Leon, in The Professional. "No Women. No Kids."

As for Cold, Compassionless, Ruthless, Merciless, Calculating Contract Killers... The Jackal... Hands Down.

My favorite quote -

"Political Assassination Is The Highest Form Of Public Service." - Joel Grey's Character (who's name eludes me at present)
Remo Williams: The Adventure Continues.

Buddha Wiki · Post by **Buddha** » Mon May 23, 2005 2:08 am

Spartan wrote:Do you think there is a non cheesy way to play an assassin as a short of duty bound assassin as opposed to a hired killer?

If you're looking for a little more help in the form of reading, pick up Robin Hobb's Farseer Trilogy. Fitz is an assassin in service to the king. I'd say he is definitely not billed as evil, and there is some interesting character development as he debates the ethics of what he does.

I'd say you could play a non-evil assassin. Lawful Neutral comes to mind as a good alignment -- someone who is following orders, and doesn't necessarily have any "good" compunctions against killing while following those orders.

Wombatforhire · Post by **Wombatforhire** » Mon May 23, 2005 2:18 am

Buddha wrote: I'd say you could play a non-evil assassin. Lawful Neutral comes to mind as a good alignment -- someone who is following orders, and doesn't necessarily have any "good" compunctions against killing while following those orders.

Sadly it's kinda a nonissue as Evil alignment is a requirement of the class in D&D. Someone killing because they are duty bound who wants to be an assassin would definately be lawful evil, I should think.

These alignment descriptions: portal.php?getpage=alignments4
Might help you better decide what alignment to shoot for with your assassin.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » Mon May 23, 2005 4:56 am

Good reading ont hat link thanks.

Lately i try not to get too wrapped around alignment. I figure it's easier to let the DMs hand out alignment points judging on what they see.

A Paladin/Assassin type character (Think the dark knight cecil from FF2) would be something interesting to try though i'm sure most people wouldn't accept it. There doesn't seem to be much exposure to the anti-hero good guys (Punisher, spawn) around.

I think the real challange in playing an assassin will be making the character come across how I want it, as a professional killer "Killing ones enemies is a good thing to promote a safe and secure nation" without the unethical concepts that come with the class. Base it more around how he kills.

I don't see killing someone for money much more 'evil' than a group of adventurers going somewhere and wiping out dozens of creatures for gold and treasure.

VETT SCALES L7 · Post by **VETT SCALES L7** » Mon May 23, 2005 5:46 am

Assassins fill many roles beyond just killers.

Ben DeVeny · Post by **Ben DeVeny** » Mon May 23, 2005 7:46 am

I had a similar conflict with my monk. He needs to be lawful, and the way -I- want to play a monk is true neutral.

So then I ask myself "what is the most cheesey here? That I want to play a non lawful monk (philosopher type rather than dojo karate type), or that the engine just wont allow it because thats the rule?"

I then learned to change my alignment between LN and N, back and forth rather quickly for the five minutes it takes to level. Screw the engine if you ask me. Why let the engine ruin your RP experience when you have a concept that is solid and original. Crap! If we went by the rule book, we would all be elven archers, human fighters, dwarven miners.... right out of tolkien. Been there and done that.
The stupid part is, once I made it to N, and met my death plane I ran back to mommy. I was boiling mad when a party of friends had to wait for me for 15 minutes while I opened book cases trying to find my death record. A penalty for dying is one thing, spending the majority of your play time in death related activities like the library of dagath, naked run, sorting your gear and so on... it sucked much much more than it was worth it. I then made yet another descision.. to have LN on the charactersheet, and PLAY the guy as N.

Changing your alignment long enough to level is cheesy, yes. It sucks a lot actually. But I maintain that it is less cheesy than being forced to be an alignment to hold a certain job.

DarknessFallsLight · Post by **DarknessFallsLight** » Mon May 23, 2005 12:45 pm

Assassins are not evil in the sense of "hey Im bored, lets go kill puppies." They have a complete lack of morals in their line of work as "so long as the job gets done, who cares the means?"

The target must die and if others should be harmed along the way? Well that is an unfortunate side to my line of work. -LE Assassin

The target must be done away with. Plain and simple. -NE Assassin ((I can only RP the extremes... I never understood Ns))

Anything gets in my way and they will die as well, so dont even be the one in my range from my bow. -CE Assassin

All in all there are multiple different levels of "evil" as there are "good" as well and not really in the sense of the range from Law - Chaos

Talwin Hawkins · Post by **Talwin Hawkins** » Mon May 23, 2005 1:12 pm

"so long as the job gets done, who cares the means?

that reeks of neutral to me, *shrugs*

Zamael668 · Post by **Zamael668** » Mon May 23, 2005 3:42 pm

NE's don't like "loose ends" ... No Witnesses. No Hard Evidence.

If there are any Witnesses, they will become "missing persons" before they can speak to any of what they've seen.

JollyOrc · Post by **JollyOrc** » Mon May 23, 2005 3:49 pm

look, we're talking about a person that kills people for a living. That's evil, regardless of justifications or whatever.

One can still be caring about it (make it painless, don't involve innocents, etc.), and it's still evil to kill people when not in self-defense.

Lawful - Neutral - Chaotic only charactarizes the means, the circumstances, and what to do afterwards.

Really, I find it hard to imagine anything else than an evil assassin. Fitz (from the Farseer Books) is neutral evil at some point, but manages to convert himself to LN if you ask me.

Tangleroot · Post by **Tangleroot** » Mon May 23, 2005 4:03 pm

Very quick thoughts on alignment and assassins

LE assassin = Leon the Professional. He has a personal code. No women, no children, avoid civilian casualties etc.

NE assassin = Kills anyone if the price is right, is mainly worried with sure kill and clean getaway.

CE assassin = Takes pleasure in the act of killing, might kill in a way that maximises death rate like powderkegs or maybe kills in a ritualized way just for kicks.

WrathOG777 · Post by **WrathOG777** » Mon May 23, 2005 4:25 pm

Spartan wrote:A Paladin/Assassin type character (Think the dark knight cecil from FF2) would be something interesting to try though i'm sure most people wouldn't accept it. There doesn't seem to be much exposure to the anti-hero good guys (Punisher, spawn) around.

Haveing a good cause does not make one any less evil. Punisher and Spawn are by definition evil.

So would any assasin, however noble their cause.

Folks keep forgeting that your actions determine your alignment. You are a murderer, you are evil. It does not matter how much good comes from you murdering folks.

So, take your evil alignment and be a good guy. Your cause can be noble. Your friends can be good. You can serve the greatest heros. You can be the greatest guy. But you are still doing the dirty work and your hands will be red with the blood of your enemies.

VETT SCALES L7 · Post by **VETT SCALES L7** » Mon May 23, 2005 4:30 pm

Now that was well put

Tangleroot · Post by **Tangleroot** » Mon May 23, 2005 4:45 pm

Yeah, it's not as if the word 'evil' on the character sheet makes you all dirty. The greatest of heroes can also be the cruelest of villains, eh?

Ben DeVeny · Post by **Ben DeVeny** » Mon May 23, 2005 5:05 pm

Actually, this very subject has been the topic of great philosophical debates since the greek forums.

One would argue that you are a good person, even if you do bad things, if the end result is positive. Consequences are the key. A soldier invading iraq kills some men on his way in, but brings democracy to a country steeped in pain = good person.

Another would argue that you are a bad person, regardless of the results, because you acted evily to get it. The actions are the key. The soldier in the above situation is evil for taking another life, regardless of his end results = bad person.

A third camp argues that intentions are all that matters. A small child wants to help mommy by washing the $700 angora sweater in a load of hot wash and it comes out barbie sized. Is the kid evil for his results? Most would say no, his intention was good. If someone is slain in an accident, say drunk driving, and the drunk survives, how evil is the driver? His intention was not to harm anyone. Many would call him evil.

there are ENORMOUS books by very big people about this sort of thing, with hundreds of variations on good and evil- and there is no absolute truth beyond what the reader chooses to accept. D&D is a very small minded game, putting people in one of nine alignments and forcing one of nine lifestyles on people. I know more than 9 types of people in my life, and oddly enough NONE of them fit into the alignment system. So unless you are willing to take a bachelors in philosophy, or write a game system that is better than D&D, I suggest just working around the engine as best we can and enjoying the game in spite of its limitations. As I mentioned above, alignments can be circumvented if need be. The team may put me on the watch list for this herecy, but I see the 9 alignments as guidelines, not as stone tablets handed down from god.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » Mon May 23, 2005 5:25 pm

Holy shit. I think i'm lawful evil. I always pictured myself lawful good.

Good points. Instead of doing like ben did and having one alignment but simply playing another (and kudos to you for owning up to that when other people would hide it) I think I'll attempt to play a Lawful Evil character who believes what he is doing is the right thing. Like Gabriel on the movie constatine. Help demons invade earth so human beings will appriciate god and having a soul and all that stuff more.

Maybe thats where the saying 'good intentions pave the road to hell' comes from.

It's hard using real world ethics and examples in NWN. (I always fight with myself doing it)

Assassins in game kill for money, sometimes duty.
Well practically every single player does the same. "Lets go hunting". Theres semantics that you can argue as to why they go out and do what they do but basically they are killing things for gold, treasure and experience.
"The orc attacked me first" of cours eit did. your in his back yard. thats like acting surprised when a bear attacks you for being in its den, with its cubs.

Of course NWN is a game where to advance you need to kill things pure and simple. I don't know of any characters who have only killed in self defense or have not killed at all.

Thats a really good example of good vs. evil with the soldier comment.
Luckily in D&D alignments are pretty much set up to be white and black (imho).
Good is good and evil is evil. Thats pretty simple for most people to follow. others can choose to put effort into their alignment and tailor fit it.

I think we should just use light side and dark side points

JollyOrc · Post by **JollyOrc** » Mon May 23, 2005 5:46 pm

Spartan wrote:I don't know of any characters who have only killed in self defense or have not killed at all.

don't want to brag, but...

... between levels 2 and 8 Janur never killed anything. Didn't own a weapon, knew next to no offensive spells.

He reluctantly took up the habit at lvl 8 and was permakilled shortly after that.

He was blackest evil according to some goody-two shoes nonetheless

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » Mon May 23, 2005 6:19 pm

Between levels 2 and 8 he only leveled through DM cookies?

Or did he accompany paties that killed things?

JollyOrc · Post by **JollyOrc** » Mon May 23, 2005 6:24 pm

Spartan wrote:Between levels 2 and 8 he only leveled through DM cookies?

Or did he accompany paties that killed things?

I guess the XP were split evenly between DM cookies and having joined a party that went killing monsters / innocent folks.

Every now and then slow progress would frustrate me and Janur would have grouped up with folks, packing lots of healing kits and spells to be useful and to gain some XP.

darthmullet · Post by **darthmullet** » Tue May 24, 2005 2:32 pm

I know how that is jolly, one of my alts is 3rd level now and has killed one rat, and felt bad about it. He's gained levels through crafting, never partied with other adventurers who killed things, just crafting.

girlysprite · Post by **girlysprite** » Tue May 24, 2005 2:45 pm

I've heard eldraea won't attack any living being. Only undead.

Vipact · Post by **Vipact** » Tue May 24, 2005 7:26 pm

Spartan wrote:Holy shit. I think i'm lawful evil. I always pictured myself lawful good.

This is a "told you so" moment. Classic denial.

Micah · Post by **Micah** » Tue May 24, 2005 10:48 pm

Yeah, one of my favorite personal concepts is that of the "Antihero"... the good guy (like Spawn or Punisher) who is really probably worse than the badguys, but either has a massive chip on the shoulder or knows the only way to make things better is to fight fire with MORE fire.

Mmmm...

I think a wicked assassin would be one that fights against other evil...doing the dirty work behind the scenes. Obviously the OoG won't like you at all, and many might despise you...

but when the day is done and the last blade falls you will still be standing, and perhaps accomplished something somebody more pure could never have done. It's a delicious thought to me.

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Role playing an assassin

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