Pale Master spell acquisition?

[Aerill]

So, any plans about giving pale masters something they should have always had in NWN? I know it can be done, not sure about the amount of work it could involve but perhaps this new spellhooking thingy could make things easier. For the record, i am not playing a pale master or planning on playing one.

Do it, and you will see the same epidemic for wizards as you now get with rogues and SDs. How many high level rogues do you know who have no SD levels? Only Pekarion comes to mind...

The Palemaster class is good as it is already and they have bonuses they don't get in PnP (AC bonus for example). This change would just put it over the top, and would make gaining Palemaster class always far more beneficial compared to the pure class.

[mortzestus]

So, any plans about giving pale masters something they should have always had in NWN? I know it can be done, not sure about the amount of work it could involve but perhaps this new spellhooking thingy could make things easier. For the record, i am not playing a pale master or planning on playing one.

Do it, and you will see the same epidemic for wizards as you now get with rogues and SDs. How many high level rogues do you know who have no SD levels? Only Pekarion comes to mind...

The Palemaster class is good as it is already and they have bonuses they don't get in PnP (AC bonus for example). This change would just put it over the top, and would make gaining Palemaster class always far more beneficial compared to the pure class.

The NWN implementation of pale masters gives the class just two benefits. The AC bonus is implemented in a more favourable way in NWN (Pale masters DO get bonemail in D&D, an actual armour they must wear and which provides the same AC than boneskin) and they automatically qualify for epic spells at level 15, even if they can't cast level 9 spells (this is probably to emulate the lack of the feat improved spell capacity in this game).

However, this is the list of things that have been implemented in a not so favourable way in NWN:

- Caster level: Already mentioned a few posts above.
- Animate dead: In NWN, only pale master levels are taken into account to calculate the power of the undead.
- Undead graft: There are more powers than just the paralyzing touch implemented in NWN. Also, pale masters are missing a +4 bonus to STR provided by the graft and a +2 to all attack rolls made with it.
- Deathless mastery: Pale masters are immune to critical hits, but that property should give them immunity to sneak attack as well. Even in NWN, everything with the property "Immunity: critical hit" provides immunity to sneak attacks, the only exception are pale masters.
- Undead vassal: Pale masters are missing this "undead familiar".
- Deathless master touch: Creatures touched and slain by the palemaster are automatically animated in the next round and fight by his side. Of course, that doesn't happen in NWN either.
- A few other minor things.

A few of these things are difficult or impossible to implement in the game, since one of the strengths of the pale master is the horde of undead he can summon but that simply can't be done within the NWN engine. Others were considered minor things and simply not taken into accound (this has happened with other classes as well, so no biggie) But with all the other stuff pale masters are missing, caster level is just a spit in the bucket and since it's something that can actually be changed i think that it should be given some thought. I don't think it overpowers the class, it simply makes viable to take more than 10, 15 or 16 pale master levels.

About the epidemic that such a change might cause, this class already has an alignment restriction and a series of IC requirements that would prevent most mages from taking the class. Also, unlike in the rogue/shadowdancer case, going pale master has obvious benefits but staying pure as a wizard has other benefits as well: increased penetration and caster level and more epic feats.

[szabot]

A few of these things are difficult or impossible to implement in the game, since one of the strengths of the pale master is the horde of undead he can summon but that simply can't be done within the NWN engine. Others were considered minor things and simply not taken into accound (this has happened with other classes as well, so no biggie) But with all the other stuff pale masters are missing, caster level is just a spit in the bucket and since it's something that can actually be changed i think that it should be given some thought. I don't think it overpowers the class, it simply makes viable to take more than 10, 15 or 16 pale master levels.

Couldn't some of the additions be made by putting them in a pale master "skin" (perhaps given by a DM when someone becomes a PM or the appropriate level of PM), much like the skins that provide racial abilities for custom races? Just an idea.

For example, upon reaching level 6 PM (when the undead arm is attached), a player could contact a DM, then receive the pale master skin, which would give +4 STR. At level 10, a new skin could be given that also gives immunity to sneak attacks.

I can dream anyway.