Rule on: Resources camping

Post by **RCon** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:20 pm

Although the Team has noted this multiple times in the past, we feel it is now necessary to remind everyone of the rules on resource camping.

DO NOT CAMP RESOURCES!

This means you should not fight your way to a nice gem or ore area, mine all the gems, then log out, wait until the gem/ore respawns and log back in to mine them again.

This means you should not sit around waiting for gems, ore, trees, or what not to respawn.

Do not abuse the AI of the monster spawns around the resources.

Do not abuse the transitions between areas.

Remember rule zero; common sense is a rule. If something looks too good to be true, it probably is. Send a note to staff@avlis.org and let us know if you see something that seems exploitable.

rolf_p · Post by **rolf_p** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:27 pm

Question: How long is a reasonable period to return to gather something?

Scenario 1: You harvest a cotton field, then walk over to a field of comfry and harvest that (wiping your brow as many hot daylight hours have passed). You then walk back to the cotton field to see if any of what was immature cotton has matured with the sun of the day and can be harvested. You find new buds on each bush and harvest it.

Is that resource camping?

(Not trying to find loop holes -- but trying to "play well and in the spirit as intended!")

Scenario 2: You harvest a cotton field, then wait until more cotton re-spawns and harvest it again.

Is that resource camping? (I'm inclined to say "yes" but I can see how someone could argue that their character sat in the shade - maybe having a picnic with another player - waiting for the day's sun to mature the immature buds -- not everyone has to go pick comfry or do something.)

Your guidance, of course, will be followed. Thanks.

lodestone · Post by **lodestone** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:47 pm

I agree, My path is to gather cotton, gather more cotton, craft cloth, craft armor, sell armor and repeat. this happend at most three times an IG day due to the time it takes to make cloth en masse. I don't want to be breaking any camping rules either.

Thalarian Arc'Thass · Post by **Thalarian Arc'Thass** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:10 pm

That is fine what you do.

Waiting next to the field, RPing and chatting a little, crafting, eventually come back and harvest more. No problem, as long as as you do anything in between and others get the chance to harvest some of it too, if they wish.

We posted this rule mainly to adress points like:

-saving your position next to the resources, log out and back in only to harvest more, rinse repeat.

-abusing the AI of the spawns that (in certain cases) are supposed to guard the resources.

bottom line:

-If there is a resource openly available- feel free to grab whats there, with respect to your fellow players who might have been there first.

-If it is supposed to be hard to get to the resource, go the hard way, don't abuse the system to aquire it easily.

Just common sense, as always.

spool32 · Post by **spool32** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:16 pm

If you have a sense for when the cotton will respawn, you've probably been camping it.

Seriously, folks. We're not going to define every permutation of this rule for you, but instead, expect you all to apply common sense and honesty, and take action when we decide you haven't. Are you RPing your crafting, or do you simply have a gather/craft/sell pattern timed so that you can run around solo, not RP with anyone in your path, and hit all the bushes at exactly the right time?

Think about it.

-spool32

_JM_ · Post by **_JM_** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:45 am

Are you RPing your crafting, or do you simply have a gather/craft/sell pattern timed so that you can run around solo, not RP with anyone in your path, and hit all the bushes at exactly the right time?

Er, not to argue too much but where is the contradiction?

If I am doing something in real life where different things take different amounts of time then I do try to arrange things so that it all fits together nicely. So the Microwave goes ding just as I switch off the oven just as the kettle boils...

Why would my character, who is cleric of a god of strategy and planning, be less organised? Why would he not have noticed the patterns of his world and incorporated them into his plans?

Doesn't matter, about all he makes is basic healer's kits and half the time he just buys them now anyway.

TripleAught · Post by **TripleAught** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:07 am

Ok, what if I picked a peck of peppers. Then I pickle the peppers that I picked. Can I go pick another peck of peppers for pickling?

spool32 · Post by **spool32** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:29 am

_JM_ wrote:
Are you RPing your crafting, or do you simply have a gather/craft/sell pattern timed so that you can run around solo, not RP with anyone in your path, and hit all the bushes at exactly the right time?
Er, not to argue too much but where is the contradiction?

If I am doing something in real life...

This is a game, one which operates under different rules and systems than real life. In real life, you wouldn't be able to sell 200 suits of cheap-ass padded armor to the same local merchant every single day, nor would you be able to pick a cotton bush 3 times in a day.

Why would my character, who is cleric of a god of strategy and planning, be less organised?

You're welcome to RP an organized sort of person. Remind me to check your inventory next time I see you online.

The key here is RP, of course. Spawn camping is to RP as train wreck is to peace and quiet.

-spool32

douglasburns · Post by **douglasburns** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:28 am

Ok, question, Is it bad for you to kill monsters in an area that spawn continuiously for an hour say, to get their drops?

This doesnt seem to violate any of what you say constitutes bad camping, assuming you arnt depriving fellow players from doing so.

To me, any more than an hour without a break, would be annoying anyway, and sort of be out of character considering the way time flows.

Other than that it seems ok, any thoughts?

Kharkiv · Post by **Kharkiv** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:29 am

TripleAught wrote:Ok, what if I picked a peck of peppers. Then I pickle the peppers that I picked. Can I go pick another peck of peppers for pickling?

yes

rshampshire · Post by **rshampshire** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:20 am

douglasburns wrote:Ok, question, Is it bad for you to kill monsters in an area that spawn continuiously for an hour say, to get their drops?

This doesnt seem to violate any of what you say constitutes bad camping, assuming you arnt depriving fellow players from doing so.

To me, any more than an hour without a break, would be annoying anyway, and sort of be out of character considering the way time flows.

Other than that it seems ok, any thoughts?

If it takes you an hour, or 2 hours or what ever to kill the spawns, fine. No worries.

If you kill the spawns, then run around the area trying to trigger additional spawns, kill them then repeat for an hour. Camping, Bad.

or

You kill the spawns, go afk till they respawn. Camping, Bad.

As far as I am aware there are no 'continuous spawns' All spawns have a trigger and a reset time for that trigger.

Post by **RCon** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:19 pm

If the respawn timer seems too good to be true, and/or the monsters that drop resources are spawning continuously, send a note to staff@avlis.org.

Zandel · Post by **Zandel** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:36 pm

Ok I have done this for components, I did not relize I was not supposed to so I will stop, but I want to clarify -

What about logging off for a longer period of time say a couple of hours or more and then logging back in? Sort of like the same concept as server hopping equating to travel time. My thought is that there are some components that there are only one or two places to get ((at least that I know of)). And you may need to travel a long way to get to them. What are you supposed to do? Travel all the way there and then leave after one collection and travel all the way back? Hardly seems worth the effort to me.

Thanks
Zandel

rshampshire · Post by **rshampshire** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:49 pm

Zandel wrote:Ok I have done this for components, I did not relize I was not supposed to so I will stop, but I want to clarify -

What about logging off for a longer period of time say a couple of hours or more and then logging back in? Sort of like the same concept as server hopping equating to travel time. My thought is that there are some components that there are only one or two places to get ((at least that I know of)). And you may need to travel a long way to get to them. What are you supposed to do? Travel all the way there and then leave after one collection and travel all the way back? Hardly seems worth the effort to me.

Thanks
Zandel

Travelling there, collecting then logging. Log in later, collect, travel home. OK (will delete in a second if over ruled).
Travelling there, collecting then logging. Log in later, collect, log. log in, collect, log... etc. Camping, BAD.
Travelling there, collecting then logging. Logging in with an alt just so you can play while the resource re-spawns, then logging back to collect again. Camping, BAD.

As has been said before, remember rule 0. - Common sense.

korak · Post by **korak** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:51 pm

Zandel wrote:Ok I have done this for components, I did not relize I was not supposed to so I will stop, but I want to clarify -

What about logging off for a longer period of time say a couple of hours or more and then logging back in? Sort of like the same concept as server hopping equating to travel time. My thought is that there are some components that there are only one or two places to get ((at least that I know of)). And you may need to travel a long way to get to them. What are you supposed to do? Travel all the way there and then leave after one collection and travel all the way back? Hardly seems worth the effort to me.

Thanks
Zandel

My thoughts on this are:

1. Long as you are not avoiding spawn by doing this, I see no problem. The other thing that goes along with this, is that you do not get it timed and log right back in as it respawns. If it respawns in 30 minutes, then wait a couple of hours. At least you have given others the chance to also get some if they are looking for it.

2. Another thing is how many times that you do that. If you do it day after day after day, that is different to me than maybe doing it one day and not doing it again for a week or so. Just my opinion on the subject though.

Post by **RCon** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:52 pm

Zandel wrote:My thought is that there are some components that there are only one or two places to get ((at least that I know of)). And you may need to travel a long way to get to them.

If this is the case, it's likely because that component is supposed to be rare and hard to get.

Of course, if there's a particular component that seems too rare or difficult to get, you can always send a note to staff@avlis.org explaining the situation. Sure, the team and builders and DMs make mistakes sometimes, but we don't always know unless someone points it out.

Druzhina · Post by **Druzhina** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:25 pm

So if I gather, craft, gather and don't sell for say five cycles AND on a different server entirely, is that camping? Add to this the server that I gather on is unihabited by other players...

Li'll Divvil · Post by **Li'll Divvil** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:25 pm

Druzhina wrote:So if I gather, craft, gather and don't sell for say five cycles AND on a different server entirely, is that camping? Add to this the server that I gather on is unihabited by other players...

I'd say stop fishing for ultimate answers and use rule 0. If you HONESTLY think (and can argue it if the team asks you to) that you are not exploiting any part of the ENGINE in what you do, I guess there's nothing wrong. If you remotely think you are camping, well maybe you are? I'd say play if safe and just don't do anything you are not 100% sure of.

These are just my 2 cents and are in no means an official answer, but otherwise this thread keeps on going since anyone can come up with a slightly different situation and I'd rather have those TEAM guys be IG and doing fun stuff with/for us than answer over the top questions here.

RULE 0 FTW

spool32 · Post by **spool32** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:28 pm

Druzhina wrote:So if I gather, craft, gather and don't sell for say five cycles AND on a different server entirely, is that camping? Add to this the server that I gather on is unihabited by other players...

After being a player for slightly over 2 months, if you know the "cycles" well enough to know how long five of them is, you need to ease up across the board.

All lawyering aside, Rule 0. Stop Camping.

-spool32

Post by **Nighthawk4** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:35 pm

Simple answer - Rule 0 = Common Sense.

If you have the slightest suspicion that what you are doing is Camping, then very likely it is. If you have to ask, then the answer is Yes.

If what you are doing is wholely innocent and it never occurs to you that it might be wrong, then most likely it is not wrong.

Please don't do it. It upsets the NPCs and they get cranky and then you go and disturb your favourite Deity by visiting your Deathplane and everyone has a bad day.

Tigg · Post by **Tigg** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:12 pm

Alright I am truly sorry to add to this thread, but I do have something I hope to clarify because I don't want to be doing anything wrong. I didn't think there was any problem with it, but a friend of mine mentioned that because the resource was slow to respawn, I shouldn't do it. I thought I was playing fair with this though, so maybe now's a good time to clear it up, I don't want to be loopholing or anything.

Situation:
-slow-respawning resource
-nothing to fight in order to get to it
-log out for the night after going there, collecting it, then log back in the next day there and collect it again, 18 RL hrs. later or whatever it would be, before moving on and doing other stuff

Post by **Nighthawk4** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:17 pm

Tigg wrote:Alright I am truly sorry to add to this thread, but I do have something I hope to clarify because I don't want to be doing anything wrong. I didn't think there was any problem with it, but a friend of mine mentioned that because the resource was slow to respawn, I shouldn't do it. I thought I was playing fair with this though, so maybe now's a good time to clear it up, I don't want to be loopholing or anything.

Situation:
-slow-respawning resource
-nothing to fight in order to get to it
-log out for the night after going there, collecting it, then log back in the next day there and collect it again, 18 RL hrs. later or whatever it would be, before moving on and doing other stuff

This represents several days (or maybe weeks) of in game time - so I don't see any problem with that from time to time. However, if you made a habit of it - i.e. you regularly collect there last thing before logging out and again when you log back in, that would be more of a problem.

douglasburns · Post by **douglasburns** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:54 pm

*brain explodes trying to remember all the rules variations*

_JM_ · Post by **_JM_** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:35 am

If you kill the spawns, then run around the area trying to trigger additional spawns, kill them then repeat for an hour. Camping, Bad.

Poop.

Doesn't affect my crafting but next time I am close to levelling I can't take that shortcut. I did have qualms enough about it that I did e-mail staff@avlis.org

Glad to have a definite answer, and saying Camping, Bad is a simpler solution than the ones I suggested.

...and why do I get the feeling spool32 is going to kill my character to ensure I have to reorganise my inventory again.

Druzhina · Post by **Druzhina** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:15 am

spool32 wrote: After being a player for slightly over 2 months, if you know the "cycles" well enough to know how long five of them is, you need to ease up across the board.

All lawyering aside, Rule 0. Stop Camping.

-spool32

I've no idea about respawn times. All I know is that once I've finished making a certain item (which is very rare for me in this particular case) when I revisit the area to collect again its respawned.

That aside. Taken on board