Avlis policy on: How invisibilty is 'perceived'

eNTrOpY · Post by **eNTrOpY** » Wed May 21, 2003 7:11 pm

RULE 1:

An invisible character or creature CANNOT be seen and identified by anyone not under to effects of the spells "true seeing" and "see invisibility" as they can only be detected through hearing.

example: Joe "hears" John while John is invisible. Joe has neither "see invis." or "true seeing" on him. Even though Joe knows John and John shows up on his screen because Joe's character "hears" John, Joe DOES NOT know that it is John because he cannot identify John solely from John's footsteps.

RULE 2:

Creatures and characters under the effects of the spell "improved invisibilty" cannot be identified even after they have taken an action to make them "partially visible" unless the perceiving creature has "true seeing" or "see invis". Characters know that the person/creature is there, but sees only a blurry, semi transparent figure.

example: Joe is in the warzone fighting the elves. Karla is in the warzone and has the spell "improved invisibility" cast on her. Karla doesn't like Joe killing elves. Karla flames Joe's ass. Joe cannot identify Karla as the sassy lass that killed him unless Joe had "true seeing" or "see invis" on him when Karla attacked.

choraldances · Post by **choraldances** » Wed May 21, 2003 7:39 pm

Thank you!

PS.

Poor Joe....

Jordicus · Post by **Jordicus** » Wed May 21, 2003 7:51 pm

when can i meet Karla....?

on a more serious note, how do these rule effect someone using stealth? I'm not sure how you perceive someone who is using their Hide and Move Silently skills

eNTrOpY · Post by **eNTrOpY** » Wed May 21, 2003 7:57 pm

IIRC:

There are too checks against a character in stealth

One is Listen vs Move Silently, the other is Spot vs Hide.

I'm not completely sure, but according the Strangg, if you succeed in your listen check only against a stealthed character/creature, the creature will be semi-transparent. In this case you DO NOT see the character in question, you "hear" him and the invisibility rules apply.

If you succeed in your spot check, the creature in question should be solid on you screen and not semi-transparent. In this case you see the character in question.

I'm not sure if this is true, but the safe way to go for stealth is to roleplay only "hearing" the character until someone can actually confirm that successful listen=semi-transparent on screen and that successful spot=solid on screen.

Vergilius · Post by **Vergilius** » Wed May 21, 2003 8:00 pm

good intellegent, effective rules. An additional question/note:

I would assume that if an invisible person that you had known from the past was speaking with you in their normal voice, you would be able to identify them through their voice.

eNTrOpY · Post by **eNTrOpY** » Wed May 21, 2003 8:03 pm

Vergilius wrote:good intellegent, effective rules. An additional question/note:

I would assume that if an invisible person that you had known from the past was speaking with you in their normal voice, you would be able to identify them through their voice.

I would only roleplay this if I have had extensive contact with this person before. If i've only met this person once, I'm not going to be able to identify them just on their voice. If I'm the best of friends with this character then, yes you can roleplay recognizing their voice.

Ent: I bolded your message for emphasis. Choral

Reinstag · Post by **Reinstag** » Wed May 21, 2003 11:35 pm

eNTrOpY wrote:IIRC:

There are too checks against a character in stealth

One is Listen vs Move Silently, the other is Spot vs Hide.

I'm not completely sure, but according the Strangg, if you succeed in your listen check only against a stealthed character/creature, the creature will be semi-transparent. In this case you DO NOT see the character in question, you "hear" him and the invisibility rules apply.

If you succeed in your spot check, the creature in question should be solid on you screen and not semi-transparent. In this case you see the character in question.

I'm not sure if this is true, but the safe way to go for stealth is to roleplay only "hearing" the character until someone can actually confirm that successful listen=semi-transparent on screen and that successful spot=solid on screen.

As someone who has done a lot of testing with the Hide and Move Silent skills, I can say that Strangg is 100% correct. At least about this.

icarusdaddy · Post by **icarusdaddy** » Thu May 22, 2003 3:13 am

Didnt we go over this in a thread before????

In DnD there are several ways to know someone is there invisible. You can still hear them for one.........

ds77 · Post by **ds77** » Thu May 22, 2003 3:44 am

scince this was brought up...

How do the Sereg percieve invis?

Can Sereg see Invis?

and Can the Sereg see someone who is invis and stealth?...clueless as to how they can.

Sindol · Post by **Sindol** » Thu May 22, 2003 7:34 am

ds77 wrote:scince this was brought up...

How do the Sereg percieve invis?

Can Sereg see Invis?

and Can the Sereg see someone who is invis and stealth?...clueless as to how they can.

Since you have no idea what the sereg can and can't do IC, why should we tell you here? You have no idea what their supernatural abilities actually entails, nor do you have an exact notion of their equipment.

eNTrOpY · Post by **eNTrOpY** » Thu May 22, 2003 7:45 am

icarusdaddy wrote:Didnt we go over this in a thread before????

In DnD there are several ways to know someone is there invisible. You can still hear them for one.........

Yes we did, but i figured it would be a good idea to post this here in teh rules section so that everyone knows and NO ONE has an excuse for fucking up

FunkOdyssey · Post by **FunkOdyssey** » Thu May 22, 2003 1:59 pm

nor do you have an exact notion of their equipment.

Then maybe you want to send the information privately to players that have killed, searched, and looted the body of a Nwalmaer before, and have a Lore skill of 30+?

*raises hand*

ds77 · Post by **ds77** » Thu May 22, 2003 5:13 pm

Since you have no idea what the sereg can and can't do IC, why should we tell you here? You have no idea what their supernatural abilities actually entails, nor do you have an exact notion of their equipment.

fair enough then. Had a run in with one last night and couldnt for the life of me get away even in invis and stealth! was short of aggravating after the third time being killed.

ds77 · Post by **ds77** » Thu May 22, 2003 5:13 pm

Since you have no idea what the sereg can and can't do IC, why should we tell you here? You have no idea what their supernatural abilities actually entails, nor do you have an exact notion of their equipment.

fair enough then. Had a run in with one last night and couldnt for the life of me get away even in invis and stealth! was short of aggravating after the third time being killed.

Sindol · Post by **Sindol** » Thu May 22, 2003 5:18 pm

Yeah, they are fekking good. I almost sh*t myself when I first spawned and possessed one as a DM. Even the lesser Sereg are to be feared.

Fire Monkey · Post by **Fire Monkey** » Sat May 24, 2003 2:30 am

Please tell me if this has all been covered elsewhere. But as these rules suggest that it is not possible to see someone who is 'invisible' (sounds like stating the obvious I know), even if they might be heard, does this mean that you should also not (be able to) attack someone who is invisible? I think that I have heard that it is a defect of NWN but NPC's often still attack after you have become invisible and it is possible for PC's to do the same. Should I or others not be doing this unless under the effects of See Invisibility or True Seeing? (though I imagine I would often be dead before I had finished typing "ooc stop your fecking attack, can't you see I am invisible! Oh yeah right I gues you can't see that can you.......").

Emprod · Post by **Emprod** » Sat May 24, 2003 3:04 am

Go ahead and swing if you can. The concealment gives an AC bonus which reflects this.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat May 24, 2003 3:54 pm

I know you get an AC bonus with Improved Invisibility even after you attack somone else, but is this also the case for normal Invisibility? Either way the bonus is +4 which is good but not unbeatable meaning that if there is a ruling that you should not be able to attack someone who is invisible then it should be taken seriously.

Emprod · Post by **Emprod** » Sat May 24, 2003 4:03 pm

Anonymous wrote:I know you get an AC bonus with Improved Invisibility even after you attack somone else, but is this also the case for normal Invisibility? Either way the bonus is +4 which is good but not unbeatable meaning that if there is a ruling that you should not be able to attack someone who is invisible then it should be taken seriously.

The engine decides whether you can see / take action on them for you.

This takes care of any inhibitions you might have about attacking someone 'invisible'

eNTrOpY · Post by **eNTrOpY** » Sat May 24, 2003 5:14 pm

You can swing.

And it's not so much an AC bonus as a concealment bonus. In the case of invisible or improved invisible creatures, when something attacks it and they roll a "hit" they still have to roll a d100 and get over 50 to actually touch the target.

As a note... since you can't identify who is invisible, if you intend and attack an invisible enemy you hear, you must therefore roleplay and attack invisible friends you hear too.

example: invisible dwarf mercenary is standing by the road ready to smash Joe. Joe hears him and attacks him

-similarly: Joe is standing around. John is invisible and walks by. Joe hears John. If Joe has taken the above example as a course of action he must RP and attack John regardless of if Joe and John are friends

eNTrOpY · Post by **eNTrOpY** » Sat May 24, 2003 5:20 pm

FunkOdyssey wrote:
nor do you have an exact notion of their equipment.
Then maybe you want to send the information privately to players that have killed, searched, and looted the body of a Nwalmaer before, and have a Lore skill of 30+?

*raises hand*

Silk already gave this answer out. All equipment worn by Sereg is not actually strongly enchanted. The powers on the equipment feed off the Sereg themselves. No others can activate the magic (even those blasted rogues with UMD, DC=10000, so screw you guys

) activating the devastating powers of the equipment

Galadorn · Post by **Galadorn** » Fri May 30, 2003 10:04 am

I popped in to the game a few minutes ago, and appeared in a relatively normally "safe" zone, and heard arrow shots.

As my loading is normally very slow, I thought someone was blasting me assassin style as I was appearing in a new area so drank an invis potion and hit stealth mode. And started to look around slowly to see if anyone was gonna pounce my anus.

No one showed up. I walked around a bit invis and stealthed (GRANTED my hide and MS are BAD --especially wearing Full Plate +1...*ahem* but thought i'd at least TRY to hide from said assassin ---paranoia setting in and never intentionally wanting to kill anyone else)...

I turned a corner and to my surprise someone was using an adventure pack (legally) close by but hidden away from most anyone who even walks through this well known "quasi-safe" area....

AS SOON as turned the corner and saw this person training, he immediately said: "Well hello there!" (emote greeting)...

A little befuddled I walked away with no reply to leave him to his training, but felt a little wasted effort on my part for using the invis and stealth to no apparent avail at all since he immediately saw me from roughly 30 feet.

1) He might have "heard" me and was taking a "shot-in-the-dark" to send the "hello" to let me "think" he saw me...

2) He might very well have had true seeing or see invisible on and really did see me... (this character i've seen before I do not think is super-powerful to be able to do that yet, and was engaged in an adventure pack)... if you remember the incident my friend, I was acting in self-defense and am sorry I did not say hello back, but you were busy.

Totally know this experience added nothing to the relevant post, but the server is down and i'm bored as hell so threw in the 2 petty cents I had left in me belt pouch....

Cheers.

ashzz · Post by **ashzz** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 6:11 pm

the listen check making yu partially transparent really screws it up.

Ykirhs · Post by **Ykirhs** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 8:54 pm

I think some of this has to be counted down to the same thing as visible spell effects, the Honour system. After all, the stealthing person doesn't get any feedback as to whether they have been percieved, or how much... then there is the whole annoyance about imp.invis, stealthed, or Ghostly-visage... maybe it's my failing eyesight, but they look very similar, especially with loads of other spell effects up.

Maybe I've played way too many FPS, but the sound cues set me off, even the whistling wind from stealthing/unstealthing... which sort of fits to a paranoid warrior's reflexes I guess. Hell... that stupid screaming cat in the NWN Campaign had me looking for it for hours before I realized it was an ambient. ;P

What is really hilarious though, are invis/stealthed folks running about with light-sources... if you aren't trying to pull it off properly, don't expect everyone else to try to compensate for your lack of foresight or common sense. Man... can't wait for Blindfight...

Mewlboi · Post by **Mewlboi** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 6:40 pm

with SoU being implemented... what will be the rule(s) for BlindFighting?

The World of Avlis

Avlis policy on: How invisibilty is 'perceived'

Avlis policy on: How invisibilty is 'perceived'

all seems true enough