Avlis policy on: Speaking for NPCs

eNTrOpY · Post by **eNTrOpY** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 5:11 am

Simply said, don't do it unless you have the title "DM" underneath your name.

You speak for your own characters but not NPC's (The City Guard, The Government, Commoners, Temples of various gods, etc. - all off limits to non-DMs)

KinX · Post by **KinX** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 7:00 am

what about commoners? ie that person posting as rumours. unless that's a DM...

Vanor · Post by **Vanor** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 9:25 pm

KinX wrote:what about commoners? ie that person posting as rumours. unless that's a DM...

No, it's far better that PC's don't speak for NPC's, that's the DM's job after all. As far as rumors, I don't know if that's a DM or not personaly. But it's proably safe to assume that anything posted from a NPC is coming from a DM, if it isn't we'll delete the post.

lord_ion · Post by **lord_ion** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 9:34 pm

[edited because I'm a forgetful moron]

Starslayer_D · Post by **Starslayer_D** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 9:36 pm

Lord_Ion, i think you are mistaken. I figured out who Rumors is, and the person confirmed it. But the person is no DM.

Erek · Post by **Erek** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:52 pm

What if some player/DM posts a biased opinion relevant to their PC and signs it as "Head of the City Guard", and some clever player comes along and balances that out by posting something from a random lowly city guard, like the situation that likely lead to this being stickied up here

http://boards.blackdagger.com/viewtopic.php?t=10575

Vanor · Post by **Vanor** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 11:08 pm

Erek wrote:What if some player/DM posts a biased opinion relevant to their PC and signs it as "Head of the City Guard"

You seem to missunderstand what exactly happened in that thread. If however you have something to say to me, please feel free. But do so in private.

And some clever player comes along and balances that out by posting something from a random lowly city guard

Then the post will be deleted by myself or someone else. Players can not post on the behalf of NPC's, period.

Rumors · Post by **Rumors** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:39 am

Vanor wrote:
KinX wrote:what about commoners? ie that person posting as rumours. unless that's a DM...
No, it's far better that PC's don't speak for NPC's, that's the DM's job after all. As far as rumors, I don't know if that's a DM or not personaly. But it's proably safe to assume that anything posted from a NPC is coming from a DM, if it isn't we'll delete the post.

Well.. Rumors are just.. Rumors.. you need not to "control" an NPC to "spread" Rumors... just imagine to go in an Inn.. buy some Drinks.. and tell some storys.. some "Rumors".. and they may wander in a nother Inn.. spread by NPC-Commoners..
Every Player can do that.. and as far is I know, i never have said that Rumors are True..(Commoner have heard that from another commoner that have heard that in an Inn).. they are RUMORS after all.... a bit of truth.. abit of lie.. a bit of misunderstanding.

choraldances · Post by **choraldances** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 3:16 pm

Rumors wrote:
Well.. Rumors are just.. Rumors.. you need not to "control" an NPC to "spread" Rumors... just imagine to go in an Inn.. buy some Drinks.. and tell some storys.. some "Rumors".. and they may wander in a nother Inn.. spread by NPC-Commoners..
Every Player can do that.. and as far is I know, i never have said that Rumors are True..(Commoner have heard that from another commoner that have heard that in an Inn).. they are RUMORS after all.... a bit of truth.. abit of lie.. a bit of misunderstanding.

Yes, you're right, every "player" can spread rumors, through their CHARACTERS! you say the commoners overheard, how do you know how this commoner is going to react to your "information." Is he going to accept it and spread it, or is he going to ignore you and say that you're a lunatic for saying that and ignore you. Leave that judgment to a DM.

eNTrOpY · Post by **eNTrOpY** » Sat Feb 22, 2003 6:48 am

aff, if you want to spread rumours, it must be done through your own characters

Rumors · Post by **Rumors** » Sat Feb 22, 2003 12:02 pm

choraldances wrote: ... how do you know how this commoner is going to react to your "information." Is he going to accept it and spread it, or is he going to ignore you and say that you're a lunatic for saying that and ignore you. Leave that judgment to a DM.

Dont be so single-minded.. good rumors are spread not only by ONE commoner.. do you really think its enough to go in ONE tavern and talk to ONE commoner to spread rumors?
Well.. maybe 1 third of commonoers ignore the rumors.. another third say that luniatic thing... but there is ALWAYS a third who believe what they have heard (especaly if some KNOWN facts where in the rumor included)
And there are MANY Inns and Taverns in Mikona.. one just has to disguise himself as Commoner and talk about a thing long enough and then it becomes a Rumor.

BUT.. if you dont like it (course YOU cant control it) .. if you say.. "Mikona Citiecen dont spread rumors.. the dont believe ANYTHING the heard in Inns... the are a breed FAR better then most commoners in the known world.. stop your Rumors, Rumor.. Mikona Commoners are not susceptible to Rumor spreading"
THEN i will stop... even if i think its nonsense to believe that a Character cant spread rumors amongst mere commoners...

Hopefully you will have then your hands FULL with ereasing ALL the posts where someone NonDM let a NPC something say

------------------------------------------------
Its only "Rumors"

choraldances · Post by **choraldances** » Sat Feb 22, 2003 1:51 pm

Rumors wrote:
choraldances wrote: ... how do you know how this commoner is going to react to your "information." Is he going to accept it and spread it, or is he going to ignore you and say that you're a lunatic for saying that and ignore you. Leave that judgment to a DM.
Dont be so single-minded.. good rumors are spread not only by ONE commoner.. do you really think its enough to go in ONE tavern and talk to ONE commoner to spread rumors?
Well.. maybe 1 third of commonoers ignore the rumors.. another third say that luniatic thing... but there is ALWAYS a third who believe what they have heard

My question is not whether or not this is true, is how do your character know that this will happen with your rumor? How the he/she know? Leave this judgment to a DM. How do you like it if someone uses your character's name and says something that you don't want to say? NPC's are kidna like DM"s personal character, they will say what we want to say.

(especaly if some KNOWN facts where in the rumor included)
And there are MANY Inns and Taverns in Mikona.. one just has to disguise himself as Commoner and talk about a thing long enough and then it becomes a Rumor.

Then do it with the character that you play, just say, *(My character) puts on commoner's clothing and speas*

BUT.. if you dont like it (course YOU cant control it)

why not? I'm a DM, and for sure I can control a commoner if I log on into DM client, in fact, I can even control a dragon, or a balor.

.. if you say.. "Mikona Citiecen dont spread rumors.. the dont believe ANYTHING the heard in Inns... the are a breed FAR better then most commoners in the known world.. stop your Rumors, Rumor.. Mikona Commoners are not susceptible to Rumor spreading"

we have just done this via this sticky thread, YOU can not speak on behalf of NPC, but you can speak for your PC!

THEN i will stop... even if i think its nonsense to believe that a Character cant spread rumors amongst mere commoners...
Hopefully you will have then your hands FULL with ereasing ALL the posts where someone NonDM let a NPC something say

No, we won't do this, becuz what's done is done. And it is stopping from this point.

------------------------------------------------
Its only "Rumors"

Then spread it with your character, not with DM"s character - ALL NPC's.

blindsquirrel · Post by **blindsquirrel** » Sat Feb 22, 2003 2:18 pm

My 0.02. I honestly thought "Rumors" was a DM. The fact that other players also believed this seems like plenty of reason for it to stop.

--squirrel

KinX · Post by **KinX** » Sat Feb 22, 2003 2:26 pm

blindsquirrel wrote:My 0.02. I honestly thought "Rumors" was a DM. The fact that other players also believed this seems like plenty of reason for it to stop.

--squirrel

me too. Choraldances brought up some real good points that are hard to argue against. If you want your character to spread rumours, then you really should RP it, not go into the boards and post as a commoner.

Jordicus · Post by **Jordicus** » Sat Feb 22, 2003 2:46 pm

I just wnat to say that i had thought all along that "Rumors" was a DM posting as well..

eNTrOpY · Post by **eNTrOpY** » Sun Feb 23, 2003 2:29 am

Ok...here's the policy again...

if (you != DM){
Do Not Post as NPCs;
}

Let me make it clear for people not familiar with C++.
If you are not a DM, then don't post as NPCs. I don't care what your reasons are, or what your explanation or reasoning is, this is the policy and any post made by a non-DM under the persona of an NPC will be deleted.

Rumors · Post by **Rumors** » Sun Feb 23, 2003 1:32 pm

eNTrOpY wrote:Ok...here's the policy again...
I don't care what your reasons are, or what your explanation or reasoning is, this is the policy and any post made by a non-DM under the persona of an NPC will be deleted.

Well.. i alway tought a commoner could be any PC who behaves like a commoner... wearing clothes... speaking like...
Did not know that only the one with "COMMONER" floating above his head can call himself a commoner...
Well.. fine.. citizen... Guy at the Bar... Man/woman on the street... Fellow at the Table... there are MANY names that are NOT used by NPCs... i can alway choose one of this if someone feels i steal the "Copyright" name (persona) of "commoner"

btw.. i have an Char called " Commoner".... he getting payed to spread Rumors. heheheheh

Ps: before i forget it.. i hopefully never ever see in any post again that someone let deliver some Mail-Fairys or small boys or whomever their Letters to the Board in Mikona.. these are NPCs.. you have no right to tell that they deliver your letter... they could take your money, drop the letter and straight run to the next inn or brothel.

"Arch-censor" Entropy has said that a PC NEVER can use a NPC to say or do anything.. so disguise your self as Mail-Fairy and deliver the Letters yourself

Silk · Post by **Silk** » Sun Feb 23, 2003 2:44 pm

Rumors, I think the main point here is this:

PC's should only speak for their characters.
DM's will speak for all NPCs.

I think that pretty well sums it up, no?

Strangg · Post by **Strangg** » Sun Feb 23, 2003 10:27 pm

Rumors wrote: Well.. fine.. citizen... Guy at the Bar... Man/woman on the street... Fellow at the Table... there are MANY names that are NOT used by NPCs... i can alway choose one of this if someone feels i steal the "Copyright" name (persona) of "commoner"

This isnt' about copyright, this is about NPC's beign the SOLE domain of DM's, just like in a PnP campaign.

btw.. i have an Char called " Commoner".... he getting payed to spread Rumors. heheheheh

Who should probably be nuked. You want to spread rumors do it as a PC, not as a psuedo NPC.

~S

eNTrOpY · Post by **eNTrOpY** » Sun Feb 23, 2003 11:51 pm

...Is this rule REALLY this damned complicated that it requires us to argue with you?!

OK, let me put it this way. I'm a DM, and myself with all the other DMs are invoking DM Rule #0.

Any rumours spread by players will be done with their PCs (no saying commoner, no saying guy at the table, and no pseudo NPCs etc.)

Any rumours spread in the forbidden ways (completely our discretion in determining if the method of spreading was forbidden) will be deleted by DMs and can be completely ignored and considered non-existant by those who view them prior to deletion.

This is the rule, I'd suggest following it.
End of story.

MikeyRight · Post by **MikeyRight** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 12:37 am

The only additional $0.02 that I think is missing, and that likely started this whole war, is that it is unfair for a DM to post NPC comments that support a character that he/she plays.

So, DMs, I think you guys all do great work creating Avlis, running adventures, etc. You have lots of power. Those of you that play characters as well generally have powerful characters. Don't let the two get involved with each other. If your character is the subject of disucssion, then respond in character, just like we would. Please don't use your DM position to advance the interests of your character. If you want to establish that your character acted according to the "rules of society", then lobby another member of the Avlis team to post as an NPC supporting you, just like any of us players would need to do. To use your position to defend your own characters actions is just bad roleplaying.

Mikey

Misty · Post by **Misty** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 1:46 am

Cuxn · Post by **Cuxn** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 1:59 am

Ok. I have a legit question...I would like to spread some rumors BUT Cuxn is for all intence and purposes...dead, he can not spread any rumors or anthing, So how can I spread any?

Can I contact a Dm through PM and have him post the rumor for me?

Silk · Post by **Silk** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 2:13 am

@MikeyRight: When a Player joins the staff as a DM... his character pretty much becomes a plot character at that point because the DM has ALL information about story lines, plots, and secrets.

So, really, I don't see any issues here.

choraldances · Post by **choraldances** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 2:24 am

Cuxn wrote:Ok. I have a legit question...I would like to spread some rumors BUT Cuxn is for all intence and purposes...dead, he can not spread any rumors or anthing, So how can I spread any?

You can't spread any, until you're raised. And by that time, you'll need to serve the rest of your sentence.

Can I contact a Dm through PM and have him post the rumor for me?

Then we treat this as a "quest" demand, PM me and tell me what you're thinking. And we'll go from there.