Question about the OoG

Reinstag · Post by **Reinstag** » Wed May 14, 2003 6:40 pm

This is NOT an attack or an invitation to attack. If it turns into one, I ask that a moderator delete or lock the thread and conversation can continue in PMs.

As I understand the OoG within Mikona: They are there at the behest of the city, to uphold the city's laws and protect it.

Does this mean that a member of the Order would be required to follow the orders of a city guard or any other member of the city's law enforcement branch as long as that order did not break the laws of the city or the nation of M'Chek?

In effect, who has more authority, the Order or the city's law enforcement?

Finaly, how do the noble guards fall into all of this? Its my understanding that they are not a part of Mikona's law enforcement but are allowed to use deadly force in the protection of the persons, and property of, the noble family that hired them.

Thank you.

Scurvy_Platypus · Post by **Scurvy_Platypus** » Wed May 14, 2003 8:12 pm

As a related note, how does the M'Chekian military fall into this? Can any person within the military issue an order to them, and expect it to be followed? Is it rank dependent?

Edit: I'm guessing Funk's question is related to things like Special Issue leather armor(which is rather popular with the rogues since it's the only really cool looking armor that can be used as clothing...the blue elvencraft clothes would be wonderful if they were offered in Black/Dark Gray) as well as some of the Armor that's tagged as being specific to one army or another.

FunkOdyssey · Post by **FunkOdyssey** » Wed May 14, 2003 8:17 pm

I'm going to shamelessly tap into the DM attention this thread is bound to receive, and ask for a ruling on civilians wearing military uniforms.

Vanor · Post by **Vanor** » Wed May 21, 2003 5:18 pm

This is what I'd say about it, as a DM... Which means it's valid as long as someone else doesn't over ride me.

The Order of Gorethar are legaly reconized as law enforcement officers in Mikona. That means they have special rights when dealing with a crime. The same as RL police do.

I'd say that the City Guard, would have more authorty then the Order does... To a point. A peon guard couldn't order a member of the Order around. But a guard captain could give legal orders, to any member of the order, except maybe Vian. Vian would be IMO equale rank to a guard captain in issues of law enforcement.

The military could only give orders to other members of the military, and only if they have enough rank. Unless they are on the front. They they could give limited orders to clivians, limited to things like "Get out of this area". They couldn't order someone to help them, or kill their enemies.

Impersonating a officer is a serrious crime, impersonating a enlistedman is still a crime but less serrious. As a DM, if I saw someone ordering someone else around, claiming to be a member of the army, and I knew they weren't... I'd drop in enough bad ass army personal to lay some smackdown on the person. That make it clear?

Spell Singer · Post by **Spell Singer** » Wed May 28, 2003 1:09 pm

Another quasi official answer.

The Order of Gorethar has an agreement with the city guard to help them enforce the law in Mikona.

When the Order enacts this agreement then that person has all the authority of a Guardsman of Mikona plus would be bound by any restrictions that the guard operate under.

But an Order member is not inside the Guard chain of command. So Kaelyn could not order a guardsman to stand down for example. A normal guardsman could not order Kaelyn to do something but could state that he could not do something... "Its ok, we will take it from here" sort of thing is fully acceptable. There are excpetions to this as you would imagine due to differing chains of command, but in principle if a Guard Captain was to tell Kaelyn to go look into something in area x, he would do so.

It is largely at this stage a grey area that I would tend to treat on a case by case basis. I can not make a blanket statment as no one ever told me where the lines of authority cross.

But what is clear is that the Order does not have any authority over the Guard, but is bound by the agreement to acting as a Guard would (all guess work at this stage for me what that realy means). But realistically several of the people in the Order are probably well known to the Guard and their words would be treated with respect, but that is also case by case dependant.

Now as M'Check does not have martial law as I told Fynch Twostep the Officers of the army should not be trying to enforce laws in Mikona, what they should do is is get the Guard or bring the person to the Guard. Outside of Mikona it does get even more confused. The nobles on their land probably have the right to high justice, and would use their local milita to enforce this. Near the border the army probably also performs local police duties as most crime there is banditry and so on. So near the war zone a military officer would be able to enforce laws in general but crimes against soldiers would be different (banditry would be something that the military would cover basically in conjunction with the civil authority) and enforcable anywhere (or almost anywhere).

As I said the military is far more confusing.