Newbie Question II: The Newbie Strikes Back

A forum to comment on any Avlis material you've read, and to ask questions about it.

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Abdul_Caffeine
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Post by Abdul_Caffeine » Wed Dec 03, 2003 7:55 pm

I'd like to point out that Forian doctrinal disputes are an excellent idea. After all, consensus runs counter to his central doctrines.
I don't think Aleister is a good example of Chaotic Neutral thinking, honestly. He's more TN, in my eyes.
Crowley went around with a deliberate attitude of 'trying to be deliberately contrary and chaotic to further my own legend' much of the time, so you can expect inconsistancy and contradiction. Which, of course, proves that he's CN :wink:
I haven't read it yet, but have been meaning to. Alan Moore, right?
Read it. Now.

Why are you still reading this? Go on. Get hold of it and read it.
However, we have to work within certain limitations, and one of those is this: quests for PrCs are scripted, not DM-driven. Now, I'll do what I can to retain some randomness, but there will of necessity be a certain amount of structure in the Confounder quests. Having said that, there's nothing wrong with having a bit of structure every now and then - Forianites can be perfectly law-abiding, orderly, organized people, at least for a few minutes at a time.
I just don't see a way, short of me applying for the team as the DM for Forian and wandering around ingame CONSTANTLY randomly making people Confounders, for it to work without some sort of organization. Which is why I'm doing my damndest to make it as DISorganized, and equilateral, and mutually validating, as possible.

And here we get into the actual meat and potatoes of the issue. We will, of course, need an actual scripted quest for it. So we need at least SOME structure.

However, to quote Orleron himself:

"Any warrior who takes it upon himeslf [sic] to worship Forian for his ability to grant them their own selfish desires will often wind up as a confounder. Most confounders have no rhyme or reason in what they do in the long term. They simply exist from day to day."

In other words, it's not the act of doing something for Forian that makes you a Confounder; it's not the act of obeying his orders; it's the act of just being you. This is cool and impossible to do in a game.

More importantly, Aloro has read this far and hasn't gone out and got hold of V for Victory.
...because THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS OBJECTIVISM.
*Sigh* I wish. I live with a Randite, unfortunately.
It's a bunch of people who can't open their minds far enough to grasp the concept, so they do the best they can which is fixate on the doctrine. Which ain't directed at you, Abdul. It's old wounds from old flame wars, yeah?
Looking back at what I wrote, yeah, it does remind me of the Discordian Fundamentalist Inquisitors I've met in the past. You know the types, the "My pineal gland tells me better than yours" ones.

So, sorry. I was ranting and allowing my character's views to influence my own, and neither speak well of me as a roleplayer.

- Abdul
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that someone, at some point, said to themselves, "y'know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to do it."
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Actually
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Post by Actually » Wed Dec 03, 2003 9:19 pm

If I were a midget, I'd CONSTANTLY be late for work. Yeah, that's right. Hours late. And my boss would be mad. He'd be PISSED at me! He'd be shouting, "where were you?" "Why are you late?" "I got a chocolate factory to run here, damnit!"

Bye Now,
Dave Atell - Couldn't come up with anything of value as a reply.
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Post by WrathOG777 » Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:08 pm

Abdul_Caffeine wrote:Looking back at what I wrote, yeah, it does remind me of the Discordian Fundamentalist Inquisitors I've met in the past. You know the types, the "My pineal gland tells me better than yours" ones.

So, sorry. I was ranting and allowing my character's views to influence my own, and neither speak well of me as a roleplayer.

- Abdul
Ranting is a right, a passion, an art form.

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Abdul_Caffeine
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Post by Abdul_Caffeine » Thu Dec 04, 2003 12:00 pm

Ideas for quests:

(Bear in mind that my scripting knowledge tends towards zero, so I have no idea how implementable these are)

1) Visit every area in the game.

2) Have your alignment shift by a total of X points (on either axis), and then back again.

3) Get into some high-security area, go up to the Great Big Hard Person of Cheese, say something appropriately nonsensical, and then leave.

4) Be offered the Confounder quest on the Chaotic Neutral death plane. You have to do _something_, and then return here afterwards.

5) No quest needed. Anyone who wants to be a Confounder can be a Confounder. Hey, Forian isn't picky.

6) Talk a (special) group of Elven and Human soldiers into not killing one another. After all, if they don't want to fight, they shouldn't.

7) Leave behind all your weapons, armour and equipment somewhere, and walk naked from Port Eridanus to Elysia.

8) Be told to do the above, but if you actually do it, you forever lose the right to become a Confounder. Hey, Forian has no need for those who obey orders.

9) Be shown a dream-sequence of sorts, in which you are tempted to turn away from doing what you want to do. ("I want to sit here and fish." "I'll give you X gold if you help me build this." "No thanks, I'm quite comfortable fishing." "I'll give you X" "That's kind of you, but I'd rather sit and fish.") The true Confounder would ignore the bribes.

10) Have a quest. Any quest. If you go more than X amount of time not pursuing the quest in any way at all, you become a Confounder. If you ever finish it, you stop being able to gain levels.
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that someone, at some point, said to themselves, "y'know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to do it."
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zeroYuugi
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Post by zeroYuugi » Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:47 am

wow... I ran into this thread purely by chance.... great discussion!

you can count me as one of the Forian members if you'd like.. although I'm probably even newer to Avlis than Abdul (although not nwn)...

I'd like to agree on the whole heavy flail thing.... I have a crazy idea about a female forian gladiator (dominatrix) who goes around whipping people (well disarming them for no reason)... cause hey... it's not death....

initially I envisioned a forian monk... but they have to be lawful... (although I still see ln working... it also doesn't fit the flail thing)... (or the alignment)

also... if not overdone I had an idea that anyone of evil alignment might like....

a wand that creates various NPCs on the spot solely for the purpose of slaughter by the pc....

and lastly I find it silly that you can play as a centaur or half nymph and not a changeling... at the very least confounders should get some shifting abilities (like the shifter prc ability to morph into other humanoid races)...

and since there likely aren't many forian followers couldn't you just make them come up with their own unique quest, submit it to you, and have you do what you will with it.... :?
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Post by Sindol » Sat Jan 03, 2004 12:40 pm

zeroYuugi wrote: and lastly I find it silly that you can play as a centaur or half nymph and not a changeling... at the very least confounders should get some shifting abilities (like the shifter prc ability to morph into other humanoid races)...
It's not silly, more a restriction of NWN up till now. Centaurs and the others just required one extra appearance and a classification of the extra abilities, which were all static for those races, thus pretty doable. The changeling would have to have some serious shape-changing abilities, which is a whole different cup of tea. Maybe by looking at how the Shifter PrC is set up in HotU we can make something that deserves the name changeling before too long now.
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Post by ashzz » Sat Jan 03, 2004 1:16 pm

The weapon restriction on the confounder should be lifted.

because thats like Forian saying - you HAVE to use a heavy flail to serve me better, and that makes NO sense what so ever.

I mean hey, who the fuck WANTS to use a heavy flail?

this is the god of mental health afterall :)

also, ive worked out armour and helmets and shields for the guild, anyone that wants a look send me a PM and ill send you the erf to your email.

ashzz
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Post by Redloved » Sat Jan 03, 2004 4:05 pm

ashzz wrote:The weapon restriction on the confounder should be lifted.
I'd at least like to see it change to a choice between the light flail or Heavy Flail, because poor gallix can't wield a heavy flail. And yeah, maybe the Confounder could take the epic shifting feats at those epic levels, even though I'll never get gallix there
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Post by Hortis » Tue May 18, 2004 12:48 am

So just to get this discussion started up again... why make the PrC quest scripted? Why not just have them DM-run? It's not like we have tons of people here wanting to be Confounders. Confounder can be given to anyone who wants it if they meet the requirements AND have spent an appropriate amount of time being a well-RPd follower of Forian.

No?

BTW, I think we might be close to 8 again. =)
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Post by Vanor » Tue May 18, 2004 12:56 am

Holy Warrior PrC's are both scripted, and PC controlled.

In order to take a level in a holy warrior PrC, you must belong to the player run order for that church. So to become a Champion of O'Ma you have to belong to the Order of O'Ma... Avenger = Hands of Dru'El, ect...
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Post by Hortis » Tue May 18, 2004 1:53 am

Yeah, got that, except that in this case (reading the arguments posted above) there's some disagreement about the appropriateness of a "quest". Anyways, I don't much care either way - Aloro's explanation satisfies me.

Working on resetting up the "Fold" so that there IS a player organization...
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Post by Hortis » Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:00 pm

top on the flail thing - can we get a team answer as to why Confounders require heavy flail? Us poor 'lil halflings can't lift one. I'd really like to know if this is on purpose or just an oversight.
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