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Drangonari and Avariel

A forum to comment on any Avlis material you've read, and to ask questions about it.

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Drangonari and Avariel

PostAuthor: Aloro » Sun Oct 23, 2005 3:51 am

Just as a heads-up to all players:

As part of a recent plotline, both the Avariel and Drangonari races have undergone some changes. The most crucial one is that neither race can fly anymore - no Drangonari or Avariel will ever be able to fly again in Avlis. The wings on both races are now and henceforth purely ornamental.

For those interested in the Avariel, they are basically like Avlissian High Elves, but with the ornamental wings. Their creator god(dess) was destroyed long ago, and the memory of him or her is gone as well. They tend to be CG, worship Cha'reth (now), and their favored class is Wizard. Their stats are identical to standard elves.

You'll see some Avariel NPCs cropping up here and there as the race repopulates, and eventually we intend to have them as a playable race.

- Aloro
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PostAuthor: Aloro » Mon Oct 24, 2005 5:09 am

A tiny bit of background, which is not known by any PCs unless a DM told you otherwise, but might be of interest to players:

* The god who created the Avariel was destroyed long ago in a war between gods. His or her name and attributes were forever lost ages since. However, unlike other elves the Avariel were definitely not created by Dru'El.

* Avariel are mechanically identical to Avlissian High Elves, except for the (now nonfunctional) wings. Dex +2 Con -2, favored class Wizard, etc.

* The old capital city of the Avariel was called Toostan of the Clouds. It was located in Drotid, not far from Grantir. It was razed by the Drangonari about 200 years ago. The Avariel survivors went into hiding, led by their Queen, Adathi, who still rules them.

* Avariel and Drangonari hate each other with a passion, and most will attack each other on sight.

* The Drangonari were made by taking Avariel and corrupting them magically, infused with Angadar's hatred. The two species are however now quite distinct. The name "Drangonari" comes from "dra", betraying the draconic influence, and "Angadar", which root is obvious in its meaning. Angadar had some sort of connection with dragons which is known now to only very few, and this he shared with his children.

* Angadar bears a special hatred for the Avariel due to events from his mortal life. Angadar placed Grantir deliberately near Toostan, which was a much older city, then ordered the Drangonari to exterminate the Avariel. They nearly succeeded, in part due to a trick Angadar played on Keros, God of Survival. This was undone recently by the Healers of Cha'reth.

- Aloro
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PostAuthor: Nevyn » Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:30 am

With regard to language, do the Avariel have there own language or do they share a language root with either the Drangonari or Avlisian High Elves?

From what I have gathered on Avlis so far they would most likely share the base Elven from other worlds like the Drangonari, but that is just a guess.

Would any of cultural behaviours from when they could fly have carried over, such as the abhorrence for fire magics and the mages who use them?
The tendency to use air element spells such as Lightning in preference to other magics?
The inability to use longbows and shortbows due to the shoulders and wings?

Sorry for the barrage of questions, more diversity is good ;)
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PostAuthor: slave_of_emotions » Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:15 pm

It is rather easy to make a script that would give them a limited ability to fly, why not do it ? (similar to dimension door, that script just needs to to have replaced the current FX with jump up/down animation)
Its rather nonsense and sounds like half done work when here are winged races like avariel and are not able to fly.
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PostAuthor: Drakuul » Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:22 pm

Emus and ostriches can't either. It's a simple matter of weight to wing size ratio. Avariel have been living underground and haven't used their wings, therefore they've atrophied.
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PostAuthor: yorlik » Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:20 pm

E.G. instead they could use their wings . . .

- to slap Drakuul . . .
- to make some wind for others in summer . . .
- to sell advertising space
- to look cool . . .

}8)
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PostAuthor: Nighthawk4 » Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:25 pm

yorlik wrote:E.G. instead they could use their wings . . .

- to slap Drakuul . . .
- to make some wind for others in summer . . .
- to sell advertising space
- to look cool . . .

}8)


Hmm, no objection to the first one, not sure about the second and third, but the last one is already true - they look great. The Drangonari wings look a bit creepy, but the angel wings on the Avariel - Wow :shock:

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PostAuthor: Deider » Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:33 pm

slave_of_emotions wrote:Its rather nonsense and sounds like half done work when here are winged races like avariel and are not able to fly.


Check your ears then :)

There is an IC reason why the wings are non-functional.
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PostAuthor: Aloro » Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:42 pm

slave_of_emotions wrote:It is rather easy to make a script that would give them a limited ability to fly, why not do it ? (similar to dimension door, that script just needs to to have replaced the current FX with jump up/down animation)
Its rather nonsense and sounds like half done work when here are winged races like avariel and are not able to fly.


Erm. NWN lacks a proper Z-axis, in case you didn't notice. It is NOT possible to make creatures actually fly. You can't displace a creature on the Z-axis controllably, because said axis doesn't exist. Thanks for the criticism though, that's always appreciated.

But regardless, there is a good IC reason why no member of either race can fly anymore - their ability to fly was stripped from them by the God of Survival, who's a cruel sonofabitch.

Nevyn wrote:With regard to language, do the Avariel have there own language or do they share a language root with either the Drangonari or Avlisian High Elves?


Avariel speak Avlissian elven, which they learned from the other elves. The Drangonari speak a different language because Angadar taught it to them.

Nevyn wrote:Would any of cultural behaviours from when they could fly have carried over, such as the abhorrence for fire magics and the mages who use them?
The tendency to use air element spells such as Lightning in preference to other magics?
The inability to use longbows and shortbows due to the shoulders and wings?


Avariel don't have any special dislike of fire magics. Many of them do like air magics, though they tend to be generalist mages. They can and do wield long and shortbows, and did even when they used to be able to fly.

And no, they haven't been literally underground. They've been in hiding, and the details of that are best left for another time. ;)

- Aloro
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PostAuthor: Fire Monkey » Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:35 pm

Aloro wrote:A tiny bit of background, which is not known by any PCs unless a DM told you otherwise, but might be of interest to players:



Aloro wrote:Avariel and Drangonari hate each other with a passion, and most will attack each other on sight.



I am not sure how these two statements fit together. Surely Drangonari PC's would know this (without DM permission) and should attack Avariel on sight as well? Would Drangonari PC's also be privy to some of the other information as well?
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PostAuthor: TiVO25 » Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:39 pm

Fire Monkey wrote:
Aloro wrote:A tiny bit of background, which is not known by any PCs unless a DM told you otherwise, but might be of interest to players:



Aloro wrote:Avariel and Drangonari hate each other with a passion, and most will attack each other on sight.



I am not sure how these two statements fit together. Surely Drangonari PC's would know this (without DM permission) and should attack Avariel on sight as well? Would Drangonari PC's also be privy to some of the other information as well?


I'm more concerned with the potential claims of griefing. What might be some general valid excuses for not attacking on sight be by either of these races (once Avariel become playable, of course)?
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PostAuthor: Aloro » Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:45 pm

Fire Monkey wrote:
Aloro wrote:A tiny bit of background, which is not known by any PCs unless a DM told you otherwise, but might be of interest to players:



Aloro wrote:Avariel and Drangonari hate each other with a passion, and most will attack each other on sight.

I am not sure how these two statements fit together. Surely Drangonari PC's would know this (without DM permission) and should attack Avariel on sight as well? Would Drangonari PC's also be privy to some of the other information as well?


Sorry, you're right, some of the Drangonari facts above are not as secret as the Avariel facts.

Drangonari PCs would generally know about Angadar's creation of their race, the origin of their language, and the fact that Angadar really hates Avariels for some reason (and correspondingly the two races have always fought). Some serious scholars and fervent followers of Angadar would also learn these things. That's about it, unless a DM tells you otherwise.

- Aloro
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PostAuthor: Aloro » Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:47 pm

TiVO25 wrote:I'm more concerned with the potential claims of griefing. What might be some general valid excuses for not attacking on sight be by either of these races (once Avariel become playable, of course)?


Not all Drangonari follow Angadar, and those that do not would not necessarily share the racial hatred. Followers of Angadar are generally pretty Lawful, as well, so they might want to attack an Avariel but choose not to do it for legal reasons.

- Aloro
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PostAuthor: TiVO25 » Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:54 pm

Aloro wrote:
TiVO25 wrote:I'm more concerned with the potential claims of griefing. What might be some general valid excuses for not attacking on sight be by either of these races (once Avariel become playable, of course)?


Not all Drangonari follow Angadar, and those that do not would not necessarily share the racial hatred. Followers of Angadar are generally pretty Lawful, as well, so they might want to attack an Avariel but choose not to do it for legal reasons.

- Aloro


Thx for the clarification, I wasn't sure how deep that passionate hatred was suppossed to run, if it over-rode reason, common sense, & self-preservation or not.

Sounds like fun!!!! I can't wait to see the Avariel, wings totally kick ass!!! :D
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PostAuthor: Melindha » Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:59 pm

TiVO25 wrote:I'm more concerned with the potential claims of griefing. What might be some general valid excuses for not attacking on sight be by either of these races (once Avariel become playable, of course)?


Hatred doesn't have to equal KOS, too. And besides, it's a lot more fun to banter with someone before fighting them anyway, and also gives the other player a chance to avoid CvC.

Drangonari: Who let you out of hiding, feathered freak?
Avariel: How many bats did it take to make those wings?
etc.
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PostAuthor: Marleh » Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:45 pm

I think we need some more clarification here about what we can and can't know in-game.

For example, Toostan has been talked about many times IG. I thought it was a well-known fact about its history and how the Drangonari and Avariel fought. It was a leading debate during Elysia's part in the war with Drotid in that here was Elysia fighting against slavers by making allies with another slaveholding and genocidal race.

For another example, there is a statue in the Temple of Dra'Nar dedicated to Orleron Sunmar for his defense of Toostan. If my character had not already known about Toostan from previous discussions, she would have done the research to find out about this because things like that interest her.

So what exactly are our characters supposed to know and not supposed to know, and how were we supposed to know we weren't supposed to know it? :D
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PostAuthor: Aloro » Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:47 pm

Marleh wrote:I think we need some more clarification here about what we can and can't know in-game.

For example, Toostan has been talked about many times IG. I thought it was a well-known fact about its history and how the Drangonari and Avariel fought. It was a leading debate during Elysia's part in the war with Drotid in that here was Elysia fighting against slavers by making allies with another slaveholding and genocidal race.

For another example, there is a statue in the Temple of Dra'Nar dedicated to Orleron Sunmar for his defense of Toostan. If my character had not already known about Toostan from previous discussions, she would have done the research to find out about this because things like that interest her.

So what exactly are our characters supposed to know and not supposed to know, and how were we supposed to know we weren't supposed to know it? :D


If you learned about it in-game, it's fine. Otherwise, assume your character doesn't know the above. :)

- Aloro
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PostAuthor: tygermoon » Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:23 pm

TiVO25 wrote:Sounds like fun!!!! I can't wait to see the Avariel, wings totally kick ass!!! :D


*peeks out, grins and nods emphatically to that* :D :D
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PostAuthor: pstanton » Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:58 pm

About the wings, If the Avariel can't fly, can they at least do cool emotes with the wings. And if they have wings, could they possibly "hover" if they do have wings, and exercise them enough, couldn't they hover to some degree, to increase movement speed and make them immune to certain terrain effecting spells like entangle or grease?


I'd just like the Avariel given unique abilities. Its more entertaining to RP a race that is original and different, like Changlings. I think Avariel should retain some slight use of their wings, not enough to fly, but enough to do some emotes and some dexterity bonuses.

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PostAuthor: Zyndro » Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:08 pm

pstanton wrote:About the wings, If the Avariel can't fly, can they at least do cool emotes with the wings. And if they have wings, could they possibly "hover" if they do have wings, and exercise them enough, couldn't they hover to some degree, to increase movement speed and make them immune to certain terrain effecting spells like entangle or grease?


I'd just like the Avariel given unique abilities. Its more entertaining to RP a race that is original and different, like Changlings. I think Avariel should retain some slight use of their wings, not enough to fly, but enough to do some emotes and some dexterity bonuses.


Then they would have to do that for all flying races, including when a mage turns into a fairie, or when a shifter turns into a wyrmling or gargoyle or harpy or specter or dragon, when a changeling turns into anything winged, alter all npcs to do this to that fly, as well as all flying familiars and animal companions... That would be a ton of work for a little fringe benefit that most people wouldn't even notice.
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PostAuthor: Aloro » Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:29 pm

pstanton wrote:About the wings, If the Avariel can't fly, can they at least do cool emotes with the wings. And if they have wings, could they possibly "hover" if they do have wings, and exercise them enough, couldn't they hover to some degree, to increase movement speed and make them immune to certain terrain effecting spells like entangle or grease?


I'd just like the Avariel given unique abilities. Its more entertaining to RP a race that is original and different, like Changlings. I think Avariel should retain some slight use of their wings, not enough to fly, but enough to do some emotes and some dexterity bonuses.


No, they retained no flying use of their wings at all. They can use them for emotes, and to stay drier when it rains, and that's about it. Well, besides looking cool. ;)

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PostAuthor: slave_of_emotions » Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:33 pm

But regardless, there is a good IC reason why no member of either race can fly anymore - their ability to fly was stripped from them by the God of Survival, who's a cruel sonofabitch.


You know, avlis needs a TN god of natural balance that slaps around those powers that toy around with evolution.
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PostAuthor: TiVO25 » Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:37 pm

slave_of_emotions wrote:
But regardless, there is a good IC reason why no member of either race can fly anymore - their ability to fly was stripped from them by the God of Survival, who's a cruel sonofabitch.


You know, avlis needs a TN god of natural balance that slaps around those powers that toy around with evolution.


FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER on Avlis!!

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PostAuthor: slave_of_emotions » Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:42 pm

Drakuul wrote:Emus and ostriches can't either. It's a simple matter of weight to wing size ratio. Avariel have been living underground and haven't used their wings, therefore they've atrophied.


This sounds far better as a explanation then that about a god striping them of that ability as if it would have been a spell and decides to do so because he is in mood for it today.

Sometimes i think the creatures of avlis would not be able to pee without a god helping them.
Last edited by slave_of_emotions on Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostAuthor: krackq » Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:45 pm

Aloro wrote:But regardless, there is a good IC reason why no member of either race can fly anymore - their ability to fly was stripped from them by the God of Survival, who's a cruel sonofabitch.



I'll second that one.. IC'ly :x at Keros :wink:
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