The World of Avlis

Sometimes, when an invisible or hiding PC stands next to me, I can "see" them, only they are kind of transparent (you know what I mean). I've always been confused about whether this means I heard them or saw them. Is there anything in the game engine that would tell me whether I heard or saw them?

Brock Fanning wrote:Sometimes, when an invisible or hiding PC stands next to me, I can "see" them, only they are kind of transparent (you know what I mean). I've always been confused about whether this means I heard them or saw them. Is there anything in the game engine that would tell me whether I heard or saw them?

It means you have heard them. So long as they are transparent, they are still not seen.

KaiRal Windspar wrote:

Brock Fanning wrote:Sometimes, when an invisible or hiding PC stands next to me, I can "see" them, only they are kind of transparent (you know what I mean). I've always been confused about whether this means I heard them or saw them. Is there anything in the game engine that would tell me whether I heard or saw them?

It means you have heard them. So long as they are transparent, they are still not seen.

Not "entirely" Correct, in the case of iMproved invisiblity, once the subject of the spell takes a offensive action the subject is slightly visible by a tell tale shimmering, which can be seen and is represented by the ghostly avatar of the character.

Glocknal wrote:Not "entirely" Correct, in the case of iMproved invisiblity, once the subject of the spell takes a offensive action the subject is slightly visible by a tell tale shimmering, which can be seen and is represented by the ghostly avatar of the character.

I was under the impression that you still could not see enough of them to make an identification...

Oh well. May be a better question for Ask the Team, or do an indepth Search, as I am sure this has been covered.

From what I remember the shimmering state of imp invis contributes to a disguise, but doesnt in itself constitute one.

You really aren't supposed to be able to identify invisible people (there's a rule somewhere that says this) but it's one of those things that EVERYBODY does anyway.

So, if I "see" a shimmering PC, and I examine him and DO NOT see "Concealed" on the list of magic effects, that means that I actually just heard a noise. Cool?

Brock Fanning wrote:So, if I "see" a shimmering PC, and I examine him and DO NOT see "Concealed" on the list of magic effects, that means that I actually just heard a noise. Cool?

Good rule of thumb, yes.

Glocknal wrote:From what I remember the shimmering state of imp invis contributes to a disguise, but doesnt in itself constitute one.

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That's the closest I could dig up to a team ruling. I ~believe~ that means you can't ID someone under the concealment effects, but its not 100% clear if its referring to the invisibility or concealment effect. I think most everyone tends to play it as you being ID'able.

Brock Fanning wrote:So, if I "see" a shimmering PC, and I examine him and DO NOT see "Concealed" on the list of magic effects, that means that I actually just heard a noise. Cool?

sometimes though, someone will be concealed and invisible. Best thing would be to look for "invisible" on the list, if you dont find that, then you can see something though maybe not clearly

I always identified others standing next to me if I knew them well enough and if they were standing right next to me if under invis. Peeps you dont know of course I would think is an exception to this but if someone you converse with on a regular basis comes up invis next to you and talks to you I would gather this comes under voice recognition.

On a kind of related note:
If you're invisible or hidden and you say something, does it sometimes not get broadcast to players around you? I may be way off base, but I could swear sometimes this happens.

Brock Fanning wrote:On a kind of related note:
If you're invisible or hidden and you say something, does it sometimes not get broadcast to players around you? I may be way off base, but I could swear sometimes this happens.

From my experience--If they can't hear you, they can't hear you whisper or talk.

spokeydonkey wrote:

Brock Fanning wrote:On a kind of related note:
If you're invisible or hidden and you say something, does it sometimes not get broadcast to players around you? I may be way off base, but I could swear sometimes this happens.

From my experience--If they can't see you, they can't hear you whisper or talk.

same here

fyrmin wrote:

spokeydonkey wrote:

Brock Fanning wrote:On a kind of related note:
If you're invisible or hidden and you say something, does it sometimes not get broadcast to players around you? I may be way off base, but I could swear sometimes this happens.

From my experience--If they can't see you, they can't hear you whisper or talk.

same here

Don't you misquote me! To clarify, I think if they made the listen check, they can hear you on the talk channel. So even if you're invisible, they can hear you so long as they made their listen check...

I'm not sure what effect, if any, stealthed vs unstealthed has on this, or being partied.

In my experience, I think once you are hidden (i.e. you are not visilbe on the screen) you are hidden from both being targetted and from being heard. I tested this long ago pretty extensively with whatshisface who used to lead the Alpha Corps and we concluded that if you were not visible you could not be heard, regardless of the listen check.

However this was several updates and expansions ago so there is a chance things have changed. This is something that is pretty testable and I would do so if I had a computer.

If someone is in your party though, you can hear them talking even if you cant detect them otherwise.

Sathsarrion wrote:If someone is in your party though, you can hear them talking even if you cant detect them otherwise.

Ah, that explains why it seems to happen only sometimes, thanks.

I dont understand this. If bioware wanted the invisibility effect to be INVISIBLE, then why is it we can still see them when they stand next to us. It isnt anything to do with an engine limitation, as this doesnt happen when actually hiding.

Also you can hear their conversation if they are close to you and invisible, though if you are hiding they have to make their listen check. IF they succeed the listen check Vs your move silently, they can hear you and sorta see you (concealed).

A good way i use when spying is to emote things like *listens to conversation*. if they dont answer you, even when im standing directly next to them this means you are hidden and cant see you.

if someone types and is invisible then you can always hear it.

Also if someone is HIDING and in a party you cannot see or hear them AFAIK.

If they are aware of your presence then your avatar shows up. This does not mean they can see you, only that they are aware of your presence by some means, for example hearing you or spotting the crushed grass.

If your avatar shows up (remember, avatar showing up to player != character visible to character) then you can hear what they say or whisper.

It is NOT true that if someone types and is invisible then you can always hear it, much to my disappointment. You can only hear them if you are also aware of their presence, and by extension due to the engine, aware of their location.

therefore if an invisible PC (i mean the spell invisible) is standing next to you, and you can see them you might not be able to Id them but you KNOW there is a person there. I can accept that.

On a slightly different note, If my PC makes his Listen check and hears someone, then i see them shimmering as it were, In my eyes as long as i know them i can ID them. Hiding means they dont see or hear you, if you fail one then i Can now SEE YOU. It means i am aware someone is there. IF someone was sneaking past me and snapped a twig on the floor and i turned to face them i would automatically know who they were.

Talwin Hawkins wrote:therefore if an invisible PC (i mean the spell invisible) is standing next to you, and you can see them you might not be able to Id them but you KNOW there is a person there. I can accept that.

On a slightly different note, If my PC makes his Listen check and hears someone, then i see them shimmering as it were, In my eyes as long as i know them i can ID them. Hiding means they dont see or hear you, if you fail one then i Can now SEE YOU. It means i am aware someone is there. IF someone was sneaking past me and snapped a twig on the floor and i turned to face them i would automatically know who they were.

actually, i thought when i read the team rulings on this one, if they are in stealth mode and hidden (hide in shadows) but you hear them, you still can not see them unless you spot them. in your example, you heard a twig but they are still cunningly crouched behind that mouldy log so you can't decide you see them - by this you know they are shimmering in the enginge. actually deciding that you see them is metagaming.

this is why when i hear something but don't see it i start casting ice storms and horrid wiltings all around me. then i don't need to worry about who they were

But at what point is it engine limitation? if someone is standing right next to me? If someone wanted to do that then stand next to a building and do it. Or behind a tree. I would still OOC be able to Id them but IC i could think mm long way a way. are behind a building, probably couldnt see em etc.

Talwin Hawkins wrote:therefore if an invisible PC (i mean the spell invisible) is standing next to you, and you can see them you might not be able to Id them but you KNOW there is a person there. I can accept that.

On a slightly different note, If my PC makes his Listen check and hears someone, then i see them shimmering as it were, In my eyes as long as i know them i can ID them. Hiding means they dont see or hear you, if you fail one then i Can now SEE YOU. It means i am aware someone is there. IF someone was sneaking past me and snapped a twig on the floor and i turned to face them i would automatically know who they were.

To me that is cheesing, but until someone gets a team ruling there is nothing to be done for it.

I don't see how hearing someone suddenly makes them appear. If they were visible enough for you to ID them by looking, you would not have needed to hear them to detect them. It is not as if the invisible spell has some sort of artificial intelligence that makes you invisible, but makes you shimmer instead once someone hears you.

What if only one person hears you? One person with bad eyes but good hearing sees a shimmer sufficiently clear to be ID'd, yet the person with better eyesight and worse hearing right next to them still sees nothing?

its the point of hiding In my eyes doesnt make you invisible. It means they are ignoring you. Hiding is not a magical ability. If i am in STEALTH mode people are ignoring me. i am blending with the scenery. if i step on a twig they have now NOTICED me. there is a big difference.

This is why i originally said im confused why bioware made the INVISIBLE spell so that you can see people standing next to you.