The World of Avlis

I've got a dilemna:

I started my first char here about a month ago, and he's about half way to level 5. When I made his build, I was thinking lv 40. I had no idea exactly how slow leveling is on Avlis. The build doesn't get interesting until after lv 24 or so. To add injury to insult, the build would have a -20% xp penalty after lv 15 or so, and a -40% penalty after lv 24. On a server with standard xp, this probably wouldn't be a huge deal, but on Avlis, it would make leveling this character much harder than it already is.

The next thing I noticed is since the xp gain is so slow, I never stop trying to get more xp. If I were at a higher level, to the point where I felt I could even marginally contribute, the xp wouldn't be an issue, but since I can barely adventure with my friends without dying, and rarely do much of anything in battles, I feel a need to level up as fast as I can, so I can be a contributor and feel like I'm not helpless. (I figure after a month of playing about 15 hours a week, I would be able to at least walk between cities overland, and not have to run at almost every encounter.)

It is really hampering my RP. Since I feel a need to hurry up and make my character "a contributor" and strong enough to be "fun (IE not avoiding everything cause I'm too weak to handle almost any encounter)", I have a hard time standing around RPing, or taking long journeys nie of xp. It's like the reverse effect as what is intended. I think if xp flowed a bit easier for me, I would be more inclined to sit around idle, not pushing for more xp. Spending time sipping ale and just chatting away. Instead, I feel like I need to be adventuring or crafting non-stop just to slowly get somewhere.

(I'm not even going to get into the fact that at lower levels, I make at least two-thirds of my xp crafting, which has nothing to do with learning my class. I'm not sure how someone can level (IE get better) in their class by doing something totally unrelated. Even RP-wise, how does RPing a situation make my character any stronger as a combatant?)

Secondly, as I branch out and see new areas, I'm finding it harder to find the friends I've made, because if they're off server, I can't "see" them or send them OOC tells so we can connect IC. This leads to more craft-grinding, and roaming. Which then means once I do see my friends, I'm almost begging them to take me adventuring.

Another thing that's a problem, when I only have an hour, and my friends happen to be online, I can't do anything with them because it takes so long just to get somewhere and start an adventure. (personal problem, I know)

This has lead me, last night, to start a new character, which at first doesn't seem like a big deal. I made him to play when my friends were not online and my main had no crafting to do, or for times I knew I only had an hour or less to play.

But as I was thinking of his background, etc, I really started to want to play this guy a lot! And my main seemed less and less fun, as I built this guy's level progression. Since he's a fighter (and eventually weapon master - if that's allowed on Avlis), he gets a lot more feats early on, which means I won't feel as bored as he sits there trying to get ahead. Secondly, his build matures at about lv 13 instead of past lv 30, so right off the bat he seemed like he would be more fun as I went on gaining some power with him.

So it seemed like I might make this new guy my main character, and scrap the old char, like so many on here said they have also done with their first char. The problem is, though, that my first char has a lot of friends, some very nice gifts from those friends, and even some good DM time and a budding reputation, and is also already getting into some class-specific PC plot that sounds very interesting. But the character has all the wrong levels now, and I feel like he's broken.

I'm not sure what to do. If I stay with my first char, I'll have some rich RP etc, but his levels will be broken and a bit dull. If I start a new char with a much more realistic "mature" time, I'll have a lot more fun with the levels, and he will be stronger sooner (so he can more easily survive and be self-sufficient), yet I'll lose the nice things and friendships, not to mention the budding reputation. I don't want to spend another month to get where my first character is.

Ack! I'm having problems deciding.

If you can move your first character away from the classes you had orginally intended into something else that would be more fun, go with it.

Otherwise, I'd say hand out some presents to your friends and roll up the new character.

I scraped my first character (based on a build) in favor of my new character (based on a background story) and I've been having more fun with the new character.

Not to say the people that I met with my old character weren't fun to play with, but I wasn't able to really get excited about play my first char. No sense making yourself miserable. Just chalk it up to experience and move on.

if you want to gain XP fast - play the single player campaign.

if you want to choose which of these two characters to play - choose the one that's most likely to bring fun for other players.

My original character is Laen Toille. He was created in May 2003 and is now still only level 10. I still play him a bit.

Kered Rose was created in October 2003 and is now level 20. If I had wanted I could have had him up to at least level 25 by now.

Basically, the point I am making is that you do not have to make a 100% commitment one way or the other. Play whichever one you feel like at the time.

To me it sounds like you prefer the second character, but that does not mean the first has to be utterly cast aside. Just play the first character as the alt!

When a char is not powerful, it can still be fun, but change playstyle and goals a bit. My first Char, which I still play regularly is still level 9. She is a bard and crafts. because of that i have just put a lot of skillpoints into lore.
She is crap in battle, she doesnt even have a melee weapon with her. But she is active and fun to play.
though if levels are important...give the second guy chance

I think I'm going with the second guy. His background is just as rich, and he will probably be at about the same spot RP wise as my first char in a months time, except he won't be gimpy on the numbers side.

It's going to be a little sticky to make new IC connections with my present OOC friends (ones I've gotten pretty close to with my original char), but there is enough space for a connection that it's not cheese.

I guess it's also hard to scrap a char you've spent even a month on building a history for and rich RP connections, etc.

A Wanderer

If that is the character that you are thinking of retiring....I'll give you my impression. First off I'll say that my main has had a xp penalty of 20% for about 2 years....he still isn't 24th lvl .

The main idea in Avlis is RPing not level advancing. If you want level advancing frankly you are in the wrong place. If you are a PGer you'll pretty much be ignored by DM's and at the higher levels those can be your best xp vehicles.

I've DM'ed you a couple of time and I like the character. Mind you if you aren't happy with him and don't think you'll be in the future then it is, of course, your decision. After all this is supposed to be for fun.

I agree that the character has a great RP background, and is fun to RP. I have a lot of fun RPing him, but there is a lot of solo time that isn't RP. I sometimes RP with the NPCs (ok I'm crazy), but basically solo time is number crunch time for any character. When I'm solo, I'm not having any fun at all with him. I could go hang out at Elf Gate and chat, but that's not very exciting for me. My favorite RP times are during an adventure, or traveling somewhere. Going to see something I haven't seen before, or just basically not sitting at Elf Gate.

I never had this problem with PnP, probably because in PnP you don't spend an entire evening just sitting in a bar talking about nothing. There's always a campaign and a quest you're on. The "PC idle alone time" was always spent inbetween meetings, so we just said "Our characters part ways, deciding on a time to meet up" or "our characters stop at the inn and take a break".

I'm having a hard time making a full transition to RP and not character advancement. I've played a LOT of online RPGs since my PnP days, so I guess I've got a hard habit to break. lol

I think I'll stick to my main for a while longer, and try to RP his "idle alone time". Find some quests to work on and pick up working on his "maps" again. I'll still roll the second guy, and build his background. In a couple weeks I'm sure I'll know which one I'm having more fun with.

By the way, even though I'm very numbers oriented, I love RPing my chars, and am always IC. I hate going OOC in "talk" chat, and even try to keep tells to a minimum. They break immersion.

I love this server, it's people, the DMs, and RPing with all three of these. That's not even part of this decision's equation.

Give it a little time, Avlis is an RP server but there is plenty of room for adventuring and I don't think there is a single person who hasn'y gone solo somewhere at some point. Avlis is also huge and being new you can only know a fraction of the areas and safe routes between them. There is bound to be an area somewhere suitable for your level for those times when you can get bored, you just need to adventure long enough to explore a few different places.

Play the one that you have more fun with or you will not enjoy it. I guess I got lucky with my first character, because I love the way he has progressed. Being able to solo an area is not all it’s cracked up to be. I understand you don’t want to die every time you go out or depend on the higher level characters to do all the work, but you have to start somewhere. My advice is to continue to get caught up in the RPing and let you character grow on his own, and see where that takes you. And if you think your character is too weak, you can always take Girlysprite’s advice and become a bard. [/Bard Commercial]

Also keep in mind that the different "gathering points" .. elf gate, the rock, port E, etc .. all have their peak character times at different parts of the day.

Also, try and join a group, best way to rp and adventure. FEAT joins regularly Tue, Thur and Sat to go adventuring/exploring something, somewhere. We have characters your current level and above. Of course level is not everything, if you are fun to play with, people will want you around.

10 gold pieces on A Wanderer winning "roleplayer of the month" at some point in the future !

PS welcome ... glad you decided to stay and try it out. If you see me online and want someone to help show you around, send me a Tell

A Wanderer wrote: (I'm not even going to get into the fact that at lower levels, I make at least two-thirds of my xp crafting, which has nothing to do with learning my class. I'm not sure how someone can level (IE get better) in their class by doing something totally unrelated. Even RP-wise, how does RPing a situation make my character any stronger as a combatant?)

This is something that I think it a (minor) Avlis problem (it's something i've noticed for a while now and commented on in other threads). The sever is strongly RP orientated (good) and low xp (frustrating at first, but good for long term life of characters and no powergamers running around) BUT there does seem to be a strong bias towards crafting as a way of making XP/gold, which I feel is counterproductive to the stated aims of Avlis of having people play different kinds of characters - adventurers trading with crafters etc (there's a quote by the boss that covers this somewhere). In my experience it is hard for a low level character to get by without resorting to crafting (crime is an alternative).
In and of itself this is not a bad thing - crafting is (can be ) fun and can lead to some interesting characters, but IF the idea is that characters should be able to get by without crafting, then I feel such characters are short-changed by the gold/xp economy. If you want to RP a non-criminal, non-crafter, then the PW (ie when no DM around) does not reward such characters as much as it rewards criminals / crafters, and as a result such characters are less fun.
Now, if you happen to play when DMs are on, then the rewards for RP are greater... but many times good rp (ie actions strongly in character, not necessarily sitting around chating) occurs when DMs are not around and goes unrewarded. Perhaps over time these things even out, if you play on the right server in the right time zone, but I still think it would be difficult to get a non-crafter off the ground if you keep missing DMs (which might be exaccerbated if most DM attention is through guilds).
Or put it another way, in developing a main and an alt, I have found that both get drawn into crafting by the way the world works. Likewise, I think it is difficult to play a wilderness character (e.g. ranger, nomad, barbarian) from the ground up - you have to spend time in the cities as that is where the low level quests etc are - so either you have to be out of character for a while, or such wilderness characters can only be city/rural types that drift towards more wilderness roles as they gain power...guess that it is just the way the world works (and a legacy of DnD, which is completely party orientated, and no-one ever just roled up a character and ran at the nearest monsters (ok, almost never ).

My only character just made level 6 a few days ago, and tomorrow will make 6 months since I submitted my app (the first one that got approved, anyway...). I'm now almost halfway to level 7. I've also managed to get deathplaned... hmm... five times in fewer days. How? Hang around with high level characters.

Thursday night: Defended Ferrell with FEAT
Friday night: Totally spontaneous RP with one other person and DM love on Le'Or (mini-rave for that DM, BTW)
Saturday night: Defended Ferrell with FEAT
Sunday night: Watched FEAT get drunk in front of the AKN hall

Even if it feels like I'm metagaming, powergaming, whatever, I've realized that getting involved with DMs and other characters is the only way to enjoy Avlis. Going solo into a cave and killing fire beetles feels more OOC than anything with another person could possibly be, and is just plain boring. These lowbie levels are tough, but stick with it, and poke your nose into places it doesn't belong. Just make sure you have someone to stand over your corpse.

Crafting is dull us mud. I don't like the fact that they get so much XP from it either, but I am biased cos I do not really do it. One of my characters makes healing kits +1 and that is IT.

However, this is what is commonly known as a Dead Horse. Let's not flog it.

you know I just got done deleting a half-done treatise describing all the differences between NWN and PnP and why it had to be that way. lol @ me, heheh...

Anyways I would say, keep your second character. Everyone has their own playstyles and it sounds like yours is a little more action-oriented, which is totally fine, but if you are adverse to hanging around places like Elf Gate then you are not always going to be able to find a party. That being the case, you will be dealing with a fair amount of solo action and gimped characters can be cool but they pretty much need a party. Personally I don't recommend having more than one character (no offense to those who like it), just my view, is that it negatively impacts the relationships of each character that you have.

Also I would say that you may come to learn that these 'hanging around' times, doing free-form RPing with no particular goal in mind, are not necessarily wasted even from the viewpoint of those who always like to feel like they are advancing toward some far-off goal. The fact is, that in Avlis at least, getting to know more people will lead to it being much easier for you to find a party... so you might very well consider the times you spent doing nothing other than chattering the hours away, as an investment in your character's future adventuring prospects. Now certainly there are servers, and those on this server, that don't look for much in the way of an adventuring companion other than a mutual desire to go run the crypt or whatever. Often in fact you can come to know people that way, and truly I have nothing against that sort of player, having done it myself sometimes. But, I would say, that here in Avlis at least, because of the emphasis on an RP atmosphere, most people tend to journey and look to journey with those that they know a little better.

So, again, I recommend you keep your second character because it sounds like that will provide more fun for you. With my own character (who is the only one I've had), I like to mix in the standing-around RP with some feelings of progression. It all depends on my mood really. If my character was not strong enough to stand on his own, the times when I logged on and was in the mood for some feeling of 'progress', often I would have had a hard time of it because there would have been no one around to really help him that he knew or could find or that felt like doing what I felt like doing. That's just me, but it sounds like it's you too. So I think it sounds like you should have a character that, when they are in the mood, can at least somewhat do things on their own.

But anyways whatever you pick I wish you the best of luck and hope you have as much fun here as I have had!

As my previous post was a bit of a rant, this is more constructive. I'd suggest that as far as the 'sit around and talk about nothing' events at the rock, or elfgate (okay, okay, I know that people do actually talk about stuff, sometimes, maybe ) just stay in character; if the group is talking about stuff, or doing stuff that doesn't suit either you as a player, or your character, get up and go somewhere else for a bit. Have some definite longer term aims for your character (as a person, not as stats) - do you want to find a place in a church or a guild? become involved with politics, find a way to get rich quick? Whatever it is, this will give you (a) something to talk about and (b) a reason for talking. look for RP opportunities with characters you meet along the road. there's much more to RP than sitting and chatting - in fact it isn't RP IMO unless you are talking about stuff that matters to your character. My main has had interesting conversations with a wealth of different characters, very few of which came about just by sitting and waiting at one of the meeting points. Oh, a tip - carry spare healing supplies; people generally love being saved from dying - good way to make friends...

Well.

Hert is one of the more broken builds you'll ever meet, in a lot of ways I'll go in to in a PM if you like... suffice to say he can't take Whirlwind or IKD and I'm taking cleric levels even though I've had to spend my last three Ability points getting his WIS to 11... took the first cleric lvl when he had a 9 WIS, meaning he couldn't even cast cantrips.

Even with all that, even with how broken he is... if you know Hert (and I think you do ) you know he's got a place in the world, and it didn't all start at 15th lvl (he's only 17th now).

I say, stick with the guy that's the most fun for you and everyone, not the guy who lvls fastest. The idea that you need to have levels to be effective is nonsense. Think creatively! Beg random people to go with you! Learn to sneak and find your way around! Buy some invis potions!

As for whoever says you can't survive without crafting, that's nonsense too. Hert gathered leaves for a PC shop for every penny he earned, for the first oh, what, 10 levels, and was able to afford a room at the Merchant's Rest and give some gold away. He's crap at crafting and I don't even know where to sell the things he does make, he just dumps them at the nearest merchant for, as I've noticed, about 40% less than most make on the same items. I never struggled, rarely set out to gather things but just picked what I came across, had generous friends, and spent my time building IC relationships and trying to make the world richer for everyone else around me.

Oh, and you aren't crazy, I routinely RP with NPCs (as you've seen if you are who I think) and I do that even when I'm alone, and even when there isn't a script... in fact I do rather a lot of that now I think on it.

My suggestion, forget levelling and getting powerful stats. I've lamented how weak Hert is for a long time, and I'm amazed at what he can survive lately, but I love love love how broken he is, and I'd never change that. Find the guy who's the most fun for you and others, and stick with him. If you switch, I'll miss your old PC... and lots of others will as well.

spool32/HERT

Aradan Kir: 10 gold pieces on A Wanderer winning "roleplayer of the month" at some point in the future !

Aradin, I'll second that, in fact, I'll raise it to 1000.

Wanderer, I know that which ever char you pick, you will RP the crap out of it.

A Wanderer wrote:I started my first char here about a month ago, and he's about half way to level 5. When I made his build, I was thinking lv 40. I had no idea exactly how slow leveling is on Avlis. The build doesn't get interesting until after lv 24 or so. To add injury to insult, the build would have a -20% xp penalty after lv 15 or so, and a -40% penalty after lv 24. On a server with standard xp, this probably wouldn't be a huge deal, but on Avlis, it would make leveling this character much harder than it already is.

My PC's character builds get interesting about level... never.

Here's a question - when does your character's character get interesting? Don't want to toot my own horn, but I'd like to think that my PCs got interesting as soon as they were created. At least, I was interested in playing their roles.

The next thing I noticed is since the xp gain is so slow, I never stop trying to get more xp. If I were at a higher level, to the point where I felt I could even marginally contribute, the xp wouldn't be an issue, but since I can barely adventure with my friends without dying, and rarely do much of anything in battles, I feel a need to level up as fast as I can, so I can be a contributor and feel like I'm not helpless. (I figure after a month of playing about 15 hours a week, I would be able to at least walk between cities overland, and not have to run at almost every encounter.)

You figured wrong. You don't have to be 10th level to travel between cities. I've seen newbies do it, using a revolutionary tactic known as 'avoiding the monsters instead of fighting them.' This tactic doesn't always work, but it helps a lot.

When you say 'contribute,' if you mean contribute to killing things, then you are somewhat correct - the higher your PC's level, the more he is able to contribute to beating the crap out of things that move. But that's only a part of Avlis.

It is really hampering my RP. Since I feel a need to hurry up and make my character "a contributor" and strong enough to be "fun (IE not avoiding everything cause I'm too weak to handle almost any encounter)", I have a hard time standing around RPing, or taking long journeys nie of xp. It's like the reverse effect as what is intended. I think if xp flowed a bit easier for me, I would be more inclined to sit around idle, not pushing for more xp. Spending time sipping ale and just chatting away. Instead, I feel like I need to be adventuring or crafting non-stop just to slowly get somewhere.

'I need to be ____th level to RP effectively' is a powergamer's argument. I'm not calling you a powergamer - a powergamer would not have even bothered to post here, and you did. It's just that this is the argument they often use as to why they need to skyrocket immediately to 10th, or 15th, or 30th level. It's also bullsh!t.

There is nowhere to 'get to' in Avlis. There are two things I love about roleplaying games - they cannot be played alone, and there are no winners and losers.

We could make your PC 40th level right now. Would it be fun? I sincerely doubt it. You could probably kill most any PC and NPC in Avlis, but for what? There's no 41st level. DMs would be spending their time trying to give lowbies and guild members love, so you'd hardly ever interact with us. I'd assume it would be extremely boring.

THIS is why the xp advancement rate is so low here. To use a cliche, 'it's not the destination, it's the journey.' So I suggest you just take it slow and try to enjoy the trip

Deider wrote:We could make your PC 40th level right now. Would it be fun? I sincerely doubt it. You could probably kill most any PC and NPC in Avlis, but for what? There's no 41st level. DMs would be spending their time trying to give lowbies and guild members love, so you'd hardly ever interact with us. I'd assume it would be extremely boring.

i used to cheat in solo games, and believe me, i quit every single game i cheated, i thought they were no fun. i was wrong, i was destroying the game while cheating, and then the light has come to me and now i play the game, not the powerfull character, so listen to me, you must play your character not to build his 40th level built in, but to build his x years of life.

remember, powergame kills the fun of any game, i know, i used to do that.... and stop buying the damm game codes magazine, they are evil

Well I did what I said I didn't like doing...hung out at Elf Gate chatting. Lo and behold, the group that gathered (myself and one other at first - about 8 or 9 when we left) were wisked away on an adventure to save a little girl! It was a lot of fun!

I guess I should stop to see the world, instead of trying to hurry up and find it. (Ok now I need to get OUT of character! lol)

Anyway, thanks for the posts (thanks, Hert). I need to stop trying to swim as fast as I can, and just let the current take me.

Toova times.

*sniffles a bit and looks up at Wanderer doe-eyed*

Ok, so seriously....
I think your last post has it right, relax and see what happens. I think you know my opinion here, but at the end of the day the fact of the matter is I'm impressed with your RPing and I know I'm not the only one. Which ever PC you decide will be the most fun for you to RP I'm certain will add to the world.

Remember, though, you don't have to wait for someone you know ICly to pop onto a server. I can't speak for everyone, but if you know you're going to be on a such-n-such a time pop a PM to me and if I'm able to join you I will. I think that method of communication is generally acceptable to most folk, though a polite "can I send you a PM when I'm going to be around to see if we can get together?" is probably a good idea .

All my best to you, which ever PC you opt for.

-J
aka Belasco/Ellowin/Faye

A Wanderer wrote: .... I need to stop trying to swim as fast as I can, and just let the current take me.

Toova times.

An excellent idea...you never know where or what it might take you too

A Wanderer wrote: On a server with standard xp, this probably wouldn't be a huge deal, but on Avlis, it would make leveling this character much harder than it already is.

Since all the good stuff about RPing the character that you feel brings others the most enjoyment, and that makes YOU happy, and so forth, has already been mentioned, I thought I'd also add that as far as I know the -20% and -40% penalties do not apply to xp gained from crafting. For what it's worth.